Episode. When Success Becomes Your Cage: The Journey to Breaking Free from Expectations - Betsy Pepine
Transcript
Betsy Pepine - 00:00.108
I feel like that hope is there for the younger generations, but I definitely agree. I grew up in a hustle environment and I'm trying to unlearn that my value was based on my hustle and what I produced, not who I was. And I'm trying to shift that and measuring success by how much joy did I create in my life today. That's a whole different metric than I ever would have considered in years past. If I try to...keep that in the forefront, then I make much different decisions than if I needed to hustle.
Gary Montalvo - 00:38.03
Bring it back, bring it back.
Theme Music
Welcome to the Ownership Game with Gary Montalvo. What would it take to get into the driver's seat of your life and leave your mark? The Ownership Game starts now.
Gary Montalvo - 00:57.00
We all grow up inside of stories. Stories about who we're supposed to be, what success looks like, and how we're supposed to achieve that success.
Big, often invisible stories that shape every decision we make in our lives. And sometimes when we're ambitious and disciplined and successful, you know, all the things that we're supposed to be in life, well, we get really good at playing that part that's dictated by that story. Not realizing that the stories were never really our own and playing the role has now become our cage. My guest today, Betsy Papin, understands this paradigm all too well. Betsy is a successful entrepreneur and real estate leader and author. On paper, she had it all. Multiple businesses, a strong public presence, financial success, a life really that most people would envy. But under the surface, she started to feel something that she couldn't ignore. A growing disconnection from herself. A secret lingering question of
Is this really it? In this candid conversation, Betsy shares what happens when she finally gave herself permission to look deeper, to question the boxes that she had worked so hard to fit inside of, to grieve what she built, and to have the courage to imagine something new. If you've ever found yourself chasing success, but still feeling empty. If you've outgrown the version of yourself that got you here.
Gary Montalvo - 02:35.79
If you're starting to realize that the story you're living might not be your own, then this episode is for you. Let's get into it.
So Betsy, I'm so glad to be talking to you today because I think so many people are going to be able to really relate to your story. know, the idea of having a life where on paper everything that you need is there, right? Like you've checked all the boxes, you've done all the things and you should be thrilled, right? You should be like, yes. And then you start to look around and you go,
Gary Montalvo - 03:18.558
Something's missing, right? Something's not quite there. So I think so many people are to relate to your story and I'm excited to have you on the show. Thank you. Why don't you start, let's give people some background, know, tell us a little bit about who you are and like, what was your life like before you got to this point where you started to realize something's missing here?
So I am in the same state as you. in Florida. I am a serial entrepreneur in all things real estate. So I run a brokerage. I have a title company, had a mortgage company, property management, real estate school, nonprofit that deals with the real estate industry. So everything I do really revolves around real estate. And it's a second career for me. I used to be in the pharmaceutical industry, but I pivoted.
Some point and I've been in this industry for 20 years. several years ago, I was finding myself, even though I've been very blessed, my business has done very well, the community has supported us, I work with great people. I just found myself not happy and unfulfilled and really struggled with that for quite some time because I didn't feel like I had the right to be unhappy. You see so many
Yeah.
People who have so much less than. And so I just, I really struggle with that internally. And, but it just got to a point where I realized I don't want to live the rest of my life feeling this way. And went on a journey of seeking out what that source of unhappiness was. through a variety of different modalities, including, but not limited to, meditation, yoga, EMDR therapies, bio-energetic work,
Betsy Pepine - 05:12.168
one-on-one therapy, journaling, just a whole host of things that I introduced meditation into my life, trying to uncover what it was. And the common thread was this feeling of confinement, being confined by the expectations, the opinions, and the beliefs of either others, people that I surround myself with, my family of origin, my peers.
Or my industry or my religion or my gender, just feeling like there was all these expectations that did not align with who I was now and maybe never did. And went on a journey of figuring out how do I release myself from the boxes, I call them these boxes, these boxes that I felt so confined in so that I could lead the second half of my life in a more authentic and fulfilling way.
Yeah. How was it showing up for you? Like, how did you start to tune in to like, something's off here? Because I feel like a lot of people, I feel like we live these numb lives now. You know, we always have devices in front of us. We always have, you know, something stimulating us, distracting us. Yeah and I think that it's even hard to get to a place where you can kind of articulate what's wrong, right? So that's why I'm asking this question. Like what, how did you start to begin to the process of realizing like, what is this and, and, and, and what do I do with it?
I think for me, it had to do with the time in my life, you know, I in my late 40s. I don't know that I could have even had the foresight or the perspective to even recognize those feelings within myself. I'd been used to just ignoring my feelings. I was, I feel like I was getting better at listening to my body and understanding what I was feeling. And then also, you know, I saw a lot of people
Betsy Pepine - 07:29.518
And we do, as we get older, we see people that are our age dying unexpectedly early. And you just become very aware of how short our time here is. And so I feel like I was, and I sometimes still feel this anxiety of, my gosh, I only have so many hours left here. mean, life really does go by so quickly. And am I living it the way I want to?
If I knew I was going to die tomorrow, next week, next month, would I be okay with the life that I'm currently living? And I felt like, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't have felt like I lived it as authentically as I would have liked.
Yeah. So sounds like you were actually checking in and asking questions of yourself and listening, which is something I talk a lot about on the show because I don't even think we do that enough. Like the idea of creating enough stillness to ask a question, to check in with yourself and like actually wait for the response. You mentioned the body, which I love as well, because the body has a lot of wisdom.
And if you actually check in, will give you a lot of information, right? It will tell you what it needs. OK. So you started to put this together and tell me about how your journey started. did you do? Did you even know what to do at that point? Like, how did you start to find these different modalities?
Yeah, so I have always journaled. So I continued that. I started meditation, which I had not done. I started hot yoga, which got me really in tune with my body, which I had never done. I mean, I really did try to seek out new things. Probably the thing that moved the needle the most for me was going to therapy, one-on-one therapy. And through that, I was introduced to bio-energetic work.
Betsy Pepine - 09:30.24
Introduced to EMDR. So those were great vehicles to explore what I was feeling, which I would have never been introduced to had I not been in the therapy. and I thought
You know, for I've always had coaches, you know, I grew up in sports. I've always had coaches. In my business life, I've always had both coaches and mentors. But in my personal life, never I never I don't know why I thought of that as different. You know, I always like to excel in my business and I always wanted to learn from the best and those who have come before me and had could teach me things. But for some reason in my personal life, I never
I never looked at it that way. And I thought, why am I not taking advantage of an industry that is equipped to help us lead more authentic lives? And I had resisted that or never really even considered it. Just, I don't know. It was almost like a line had been drawn and I would have, I'm not sure why it took me so long to realize that there's help out there. So I think that really helped me understand more fully.
Mean, I think you're pointing to something really interesting because I don't know that we're even trained to look for those things for ourselves. Like we're trained to hustle, we're trained to push for our goals, we're trained to, you know, overcome us. Like, you know, there's all these ways that we're being pushed professionally to produce income, to produce...
You know, results in life, but we're not often trained or have an example of self-care. I mean, I was interviewing my friend Dawn yesterday and she was talking about how she and her entire life did not see her mother take a day off. Her mother just like was, you know, we were talking about the legacy of working hard.
Gary Montalvo - 11:38.962
Right? That we were both like grew up in these like working hard families and we wore like a badge of honor. Yeah. At the expense of our self care, our peace of mind, our health, our, you know. Yeah. So I think a lot of people are going to resonate with that. That I just don't even think we're we're trained to think that.
Yeah. No, think maybe the younger generations get better messaging than... You're younger than me, but I feel like that hope is there for the younger generations, but I definitely agree. I grew up in a hustle environment and I learned that my... And I'm trying to unlearn that my value was based on my hustle and what I produced, not who I was whole different thing now.
Betsy Pepine - 12:28.366
And I'm trying to shift that and measuring success by how much joy did I create in my life today. That's a whole different metric than I ever would have considered in years past. But if I try to keep that in the forefront, then I make much different decisions than if I needed to hustle.
Yeah. So you go on this journey, you start to really follow this breadcrumb of modalities and things. It sounds like you were just like trying whatever inspired you in that moment, right? Yeah. So what started to happen? Like, what did you start to discover? And how did your life start to change?
Right. I I feel like I felt lighter, like physically lighter and freer. I felt more confident in understanding what my personal values are and living a life that's attuned to my personal values and screening decisions through that and understanding if I say yes to something that I'm, what am I saying no to? There's always something I'm saying no to, whether it's...
Obvious or not and making sure that the trade-off is worth that. So just being much, much more intentional about how I live my days.
Yeah, you, I think you also just said something really key that we end up talking about on the show a lot as well is the idea of really understanding what your values are and putting, filtering everything through that. Yeah. You know, and I think that's another area where we're not necessarily taught to do that.
Gary Montalvo - 14:19.214
You know, like you don't go to school and go, oh, what are your values? And, you know, are you, is this test that you're taking today in your value? You know, like we don't, we just don't get that type of training. And it's one of the places where we fall into traps because then we're not making conscious decisions that are about the things that matter to us, but they're about the things where you feel you have to do or you...
Programming that you receive from life, from expectations and these boxes that you're speaking about. So how did you, so then where did the, at some point you started to kind of articulate this thesis of the boxes and turn it into a book. Like talk to me a little bit about that journey and how you got from there to there.
Well, when I was journaling, I started journaling about all the experiences of when I felt most confined by these boxes. so over the course of several years, I had a collection of stories that pertained to my life and my journey through those. And when I spoke with other people about my idea, they would share what boxes they were in, and they were frustrated by feeling like they were stuck in them.
And so I wrote the book. The book is a compilation of my stories of the boxes that I found myself in and how I either successfully or unsuccessfully negotiated my way out of them. And I wrote the book because, I mean, it was a compilation of my journal really, but I wrote it in the hopes that it would help one person recognize perhaps a box that they didn't realize that they were in.
Understand that there's options and that helping them with strategies to free themselves from boxes that no longer serve them.
Gary Montalvo - 16:21.73
Yeah. What were, I mean, some of the boxes I think are obvious, but I guess was there a box that surprised you that you didn't realize was a box? You know, like, well,
I they're everywhere. I would talk to people and say, know, I'd ask them what box they felt confined in. And I remember one gentleman, he's a very big, tall African-American. And he said, everybody assumed growing up that he played football. And he felt so frustrated by that because he doesn't do any sports. And he felt like there was an expectation all his life that he should play sports, like sports, watch sports.
Just based on his physique. And that was interesting to me because I've never personally experienced a box. Well, I've experienced a box of females, especially we were in a box based on our weight or our values based on our weight, but not a sports thing. And I was like, well, that's interesting. That was a new one for me, you know, or a gentleman. You know, I have my own family of origin boxes, but for him...
He said his was, he was the fourth generation named John Jr. You know, there was four before him. And then he, in the tradition in his family was to name the firstborn son, you know, John. And so he had the firstborn son and there was just the expectation that his son was going to be named John. And he went against the tradition and that created major discord in his family. And I was like, my gosh, like I...
Didn't have any pressures to name my children a certain way. So there's just, everybody has their own set of boxes that they run up against, you know, based on the family that they're born in, their religion, the industry they're in, their gender, their peer group, the country they live in. I mean, there's just so many different external forces that impose, or we feel that they're imposing.
Betsy Pepine - 18:29.582
Their beliefs on us.
Yeah. So some of these boxes, as you're sharing, you know, they seem like situational, right? Like, belong to this family, so I'm inheriting this box. Some of the boxes seem like they would be more social agreements, if you will, right? You know, ideas about money, for example, ideas about be, you know, how to behave or something, how, you know, a woman should behave or how a man should behave. How do you, cause I, you know, if I just, we haven't gotten into any of your frameworks or strategies, but the, can kind of get to the family stuff pretty easily and go, okay. But how do you break out of frameworks that are like built into the structure of society, right? Like that there, it's almost like you have to unplug yourself from the matrix to.
You do. And you have to have the courage to call it out. You know, I remember reading a major newspaper, major business newspaper. And I remember reading a Sunday edition and feeling very unsettled. Couldn't figure out why I felt unsettled after reading the paper. And I went back and looked at the section I was feeling uneasy about. And I recognized that every article, which all the articles were submitted by different writers, authors.
Betsy Pepine - 20:06.464
Every time a woman was mentioned in the article, this is a business newspaper, her age was put in parentheses when they first introduced the woman's name, they would write her name, and in parentheses behind her name was her age. And in every article where a man was introduced, the age was not there. It was bizarre. What? It was so bizarre. Major, major national business newspaper.
And I'm like, what in the world? And this was not 20 years ago. And then I'm like, how does that even happen? different writers, it was different writers. So I'm like, is this an editorial standard? And an editor goes in and Googles these people? Because I've been interviewed. I've been on, I can't tell you how many podcasts I've been interviewed a ton. I've never been asked my age. did they ask these women their age? Did they go Google them?
Why was this important and why if it was important, why wasn't it, why weren't the men asked? These were not articles based on how much you accomplished in so many years being here. It wasn't like an age thing. So it just, it was ridiculous. And so I wrote the editor. said, this is crazy. You have got to change this. And they, about a month later, I got a letter back from the editor who said, thank you for pointing this out. I'm not sure what's going on, but we're going to correct it. So it's,
Like you just have to be able to, if something's upsetting you, you see like a societal thing, you have to be willing to call it and ask for change.
Yeah. Yeah, and what about, so I love that example. And the other thing that came to mind was examples where you can't get agreement for the change. I'm trying to think of an, know, I don't know, like the idea that you, you know, the one that comes to mind is, for example, the idea that
Gary Montalvo - 22:14.818
Money makes you successful, right? Which is like one of our societal norms. But then often what happens if you don't have the money, how do you unplug yourself from the matrix when life tells you that you need this to be successful? And I'm not like some hippie saying you don't need money, you know, money's good.
But it's the only example that I could think of, Like, if you can think of a better example, definitely we can use that. But how do you... Because there's got to be a way where you're still being able to hold your power when society is not changing its mind. Does that make sense?
Right. And I mean, we say society, but who is that really? You know? And so I feel like we just ref... The key for me is to reframe it in my own mind. So, like I reframed failure years ago. Failure just does not exist for me. It's a box that some people choose to be in or some people choose to label some outcomes in. I don't... It doesn't exist in my world because to me...
Worst case, if I'm resisting something and I believe it might be because I'm going to fear it, I'm going to fail. No, it's not that. Worst that can happen, worst case scenario is that the outcome isn't what I expected. I have to pivot. No big deal. I've had to pivot a lot in my life. And I will have learned something so great and valuable that I get to take with me for the rest of this journey. That's worst case scenario. That's not failure.
Right? So I choose not to have that in my life. So I would say with the money thing, it's just not, that's not a paradigm that I'm going to buy into. You know, money makes me successful. Not at all. mean, studies have shown just a, you don't need a whole lot before it starts to be an even playing an even keel in terms of not adding any incremental happiness to your life. And that, that amount is usually as long as your basic needs are met, then happiness is not affected by money.
Gary Montalvo - 24:25.344
Yeah, so it's really about reframing the belief in making a conscious choice that you're not going to subscribe to the box as it's written, right? As it's designed.
Right.
Betsy Pepine - 24:41.58
Yeah, and I think that's the key is starting to question everything that we've been trained or programmed really to believe. You can choose to believe it or you can choose not to believe it.
Yeah. Yeah, which comes back to this idea of reflecting, right? And being able to ask those questions like you did in the beginning of your journey. Because if you're asking those questions, if you're in an inquiry, you'll eventually get to some of these questions and start to identify whether these questions or the answers are serving you.
Hey okay. I love it. So then, so then you, you started journaling, you're putting, you know, you start to kind of formulate this body of work. eventually becomes a book. and it's interesting cause you're, mean, I, I, at this point, you're somebody who's, you think it's fair to say that you know yourself to be someone who can accomplish things because you've had several businesses, you've had two successful careers, you're.
You definitely, so writing a book probably is not like a scary thing. I don't know, was it?
Betsy Pepine - 26:00.486
And so it's funny because it was scary for me because writing a business book would not have been scary at all. Writing a how to build a business, how to run a real estate team, whatever. That would have been very simple and very, it would not have been anxiety provoking. For me, writing this book was a big challenge and I like challenges, but because I was writing, I was so vulnerable in the book.
On my, it's, this book is about my personal life. I mean, there are business stories in there, but it opened myself up to a side that is not normally seen by others. And so that's why it was the hardest. One of the hardest things I've ever had to do is push submit. When I sent my, my document, it was like final revisions. It's going to be published. And I, I had to sit on that for about a week because I was so, there was a lot of anxiety. yeah.
You know, releasing your story to the world.
That's the ultimate breaking out of a box.
Yeah. Well, I want exactly. that's one of the reasons I did that. And that's one of the reasons I didn't write a how-to book on real estate is that wouldn't have satisfied what I wanted to accomplish.
Gary Montalvo - 27:15.35
Yeah. What are some of the boxes that you see most people struggle with or more frequently?
I think probably gender-based boxes, roles, know, roles based on our gender or role, you know, the good mom, the good wife, the good husband, the good daughter, the good son, like those kinds of roles, I think they're universal. And I think we all struggle with them. I think your occupation, I think a lot of people struggle with what...
what is expected within the occupation and then switching occupations, getting out of one box into another. I think that's a, that's a big one.
I religion, I think a lot of people…struggle with, they like pieces of their religion, but they don't like everything about their religion, but they feel boxed in. The minute someone says they were raised Catholic, you start thinking things. You just do. And you say somebody's a priest, now you've made several assumptions and you don't know anything other than what that person has chosen to do as their occupation. So I think occupational boxes are huge.
Gary Montalvo - 28:40.246
Yeah. I, you, when you said that the career one, the, really hit home for me because I, what I remembered was, so my first career, I was an art director. I used to be in marketing and design and I used to design marketing for Sony music. And then I went to do Broadway marketing for theater and I was there for doing that for almost over 15 years and had a lot of success. And then I found coaching and I fell in love with it. And, you know, I said, this is like, it called me. Like, wasn't even for me, it wasn't like, oh, I hate what I'm doing. Like, I just got this calling that I had to answer. But I remember, you know, as a designer, I had my portfolio, I had my resume, I had my degree, my fantasy degree from the School of Visual Arts.
I had all of these things that told people, told the world that I am good at what I do, that I am successful. And here I come, deciding that I'm going to be a coach. And I don't have anything but a business card that I designed myself to back me up.
And I remember the ego death that I had to go through. it literally was a process of a few years of unraveling that old identity and allowing this new identity to emerge. I mean, I think you do that anyway when you're switching over from being a nine to five person to an entrepreneur. It's one of the things that I often have to work with clients about. It's like, no, no, no, no, it's different now. know, it's like...
But when you're switching like this badge that I used to wear with like, know, it's like capital D.
Gary Montalvo - 30:39.022
It was so, I always talk about that because it really was letting go of who I thought I was to become who I was becoming in that moment was easier said than done. Because my ego was holding on to all that stuff. So I get it.
I love it. I love it. Another box, I don't know why that reminded me of it, but I work a lot with prisoners and that's a huge box. Recently released prisoners. It's a box that, especially the way disclosure rules are, that's sometimes a box they can never shed. You have to disclose certain things and it's like, wow, I can't imagine. It's like the Scarlet Letter and the Hester Prynne and…having a visual reminder of the box that they were once in and never getting to shed that, you know.
Yeah. So, is there like some tips or framework or something that you want to start sharing with people that to kind of support them and identifying these boxes and freeing themselves?
Right. And so we talked a little bit about becoming much more aware of how we're feeling. That's going to be your first sign your body tells you before your mind. And so the more you're in touch with your feelings and your emotions, the easier it will be for you to identify the boxes that are no longer serving you. I have a feelings app on my phone. It's called How We Feel. And it's a free app. It checks in with me several times a day. I love it. It gives you all these different bubbles. You just click the bubble that...
Betsy Pepine - 32:19.97
That describes your feeling at the time and you plug in who you're with, what you're doing and the environment you're in. And you can start seeing patterns and things that bring joy and authenticity and things that are weighing you down. But once you know what box you're in, then you got to figure out why is it that you're staying in it. It must be serving you in some way. If you choose to stay in, it could be a destructive way, but you are, it is serving you. And usually it's a fear-based response. so, and I have found that there's kind of three basic fears, fear of failure, which I already talked about how I deal with that one, fear of loss. So it can be loss of status, like your ego, you were talking about when you shifted from your career, you you definitely probably felt a loss of status, you were in a prestigious position within your industry, and now you're going kind of, you're at the bottom of the of the totem pole working your way back up in a new industry. And that's how I was when I switched careers as well. So fear of loss of status, fear of loss of social connection. know, you're going to, whenever you, whenever you make a move in your life, it's like a game of chess and you've, you've changed the board and that's going to upset certain people. They're going to feel threatened. They're not going to like it. They're not going to agree with it. You will definitely lose some social connections that you had.
But know that and prepare for that and look for social connections that are going to help you in the future version of you. Right? And so I'm sure you lost social connections when you left your industry, but I always tell people proactively look ahead. Who can help you? You're laughing. What is the story?
No, I was saying, I don't know if I lost it. I think what you lose is mentors, right? I think you lose the profession. I had mentors that I've worked with people that the moment I dropped their name, I would get a job because that's the kind of status that my mentors had. And as a coach, I haven't had Tony Robbins mentor me like that.
Betsy Pepine - 34:31.513
So, and it could also be a fear of loss of financial security. I don't know if you felt that going from.
Oh, what? 1000 %? Yeah, that that probably is the biggest one, right? You're like, I'm gonna be homeless.
Right. Right. So for that one, you know, I feel like we're in a better position now than we were 25 years ago. I feel with the gig economy, remote work, computers, internet, all that, it really makes there so many choices and options for people to supplement their income while they're growing their business. I think you do have options there.
So yeah, so just identify what the fear is. I like to write it down, figure out why is it that I'm resisting it? Is this fear really rational? Usually it's not. Things on paper look much more manageable when they're written down than when we let them fester untethered in our heads. And then, you you just take, I like to take baby steps and working my way out of those fears and into a life of authenticity.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, what I'm sort of present to is that you're going to have to put on your big girl, big boy pants. Yeah. You know, like this is not breaking out of these boxes and detangling yourself. And, you know, I mean, I just shared, I'm not kidding. Like that process of me and tangling myself from one career to the other.
Gary Montalvo - 36:02.914
Took years, years, years for me to really get to the bottom of and complete it. And there's a way in which you have to be willing to get messy, to get uncomfortable, to shuffle things around.
To get to the other side of what's actually possible. Right? And I think that that's part of the fear, right? Like if I stir all this up, if I reshuffle all this, if I move this around, if I leave my job, will I ever be able to blank?
Did you feel like, you you talked about an identity shift taking several years. When I was in my first career, which was in the pharmaceutical industry, I got laid off at the end. that's one of the reasons I pivoted. And at the time, my identity was very wrapped up in that industry. then it was, you know, I got laid off and I vowed I would never attach my identity to something that could be taken away.
And I'm wondering with you when you shifted because it seemed like your identity was very wrapped up in the art world. Do you feel like your identity has now shifted to the coaching world or do you feel like your identity is independent of what you do now?
No, I honestly don't think that I've gotten to a place where my identity is detached. What I can do is catch it and I can manage it. But it's something that I still have to catch myself on. And I'll give you an example, right? so I started my coaching practice.
Gary Montalvo - 38:02.958
In 2008. then I was doing the first five years, was total hot mess struggling, trying to figure it out, trying to detach my identity, trying to figure out how to walk into a room and not throw up when I introduced myself, like all that kind of stuff. And then I got it going, got it going, started rolling up. And after, I don't know, year eight, think it was one of my corporate clients offered me a job.
And so I loved the company. was a chance to train and develop 20, 25,000 people. So I was like, okay, you know what? For me, my identity was never about being an entrepreneur. It was about making an impact and being a coach, right? So I closed my business and I worked for one of my corporate clients for about six years.
Again, identity shift. Now I'm in a whole new space again. Now I'm, was like, But I do remember there going like, I never thought I was going to work for anybody again. What am I doing here? Like, I remember that. But leaving the company and restarting my business, which happened about two years ago, what I noticed was I was like, man, I'm at the bottom again. Right? Like I gotta, I gotta start this hustle again. I gotta get this business going again.
And I, you know, and what I realized that my identity was taking a hit because I had lost my, my comfortable C-suite job, you know, executive suite, you know, cushy job with my corporate card and my, you know, multiple six figures and my, you know, and now I'm like, okay, I'm here in startup mode. And there I've noticed the ego is like, you know, really acting out. that, that, that it's like that box that I was in, like you said it and it hit me when you said the status, right? I had a certain status and then all of a sudden now I lost that status. And so I've had to do a lot of active work to untangle myself from that and realizing that, you know, I still have a portfolio of
Gary Montalvo - 40:26.08
Accomplishments, right? I still have this experience. still have, and even though it's not, you know, it doesn't look exactly like what I thought. So I still find this there. I would love to get to a point where I'm not, but you know, the other thing that I wanted to say about this is I talked about hard work. And so I, one of the places that I catch myself identifying with in a box is with that with the idea of being a hard worker. And so I'm actively in a point in my life right now where I'm like, not that I don't want to be a hard worker, but that hard work isn't the point, right? The hard work isn't like the status that I wear. The hard work isn't the badge of honor, you know, because then it's like me being a martyr. It's not about like getting it done. It's about like, I'm a hard worker, you know? And the other thing that I noticed about that is like, well, does it have to be hard?
Like, what are you calling in when you're manifesting hard work? can it be fun work? Can be like, can it flow? Can it be joyful work? So yeah, so no, it's a good question. Thank you for asking it. I definitely feel that it's something that I still manage, deal with, but I do think that I manage it. I do think that...
Exactly.
Gary Montalvo - 41:49.614
You know, once I catch it, I can do some of the work that you're talking about. But I'm still chasing that status. Still chasing that status.
Yeah. That's Betsy. So for that one, I always just say, Betsy, that's my ego. Put your ego on the shelf and move to the directions of your dreams. And that helps me separate myself from my ego.
Yeah, for me, like the it's it's my client interactions, you know, whenever I had because it's so easy to you go, my business hasn't reached X or I'm not back to my old salary or I'm not blah, blah, blah, blah. But then it's like who, you know, I made an impact with this person today. You know, you get that text that says, you know, that conversation, I just did that. And here's what happened. And you're just like, OK, OK.
it's worth every freaking penny, every moment, every struggle, every time i get one of those
Yeah. The longer I'm here, the longer I feel that the, you know, we're here for connection. And if we measured our life by successful connections, if that's the measure of success, it would be so different, you know, and you'd have successful days every day and feel valued.
Gary Montalvo - 43:10.284
Yeah, no, and I think, you know, ultimately we're here for impact in whatever way that looks like, right? That doesn't mean you have to, you know, take up a mantle and be a politician, but how many people have you put in homes, right? How many people have you helped do your nonprofit? How many people have you employed? How many families have you helped make an income like that? The ripple effect of that. And it's incredible, right? And it's what it's all about at the end of the day.
I think the value of us having our businesses is that we can make that kind of an impact. It's one of the reasons I love working with entrepreneurs, because it doesn't stay with them. Entrepreneurs are always causing catalyst effects. So what's next for you, my love, as we start to wrap up?
For sure.
Betsy Pepine - 44:04.706
So we're rolling out a course that's a companion to the book for people who really want the how-to's for working on their own boxes that should be rolling out this week or next week. Yeah, so that's the big thing. And then I honestly don't know. mean, I'm still working on my businesses, but people keep asking if I'm going to write another book. I don't know. I'm not sure yet.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it makes sense because you, you know, the goal wasn't to be an author, right? You just had this thing that was, that needed to be expressed.
Right, exactly. Yeah, I say the book was birthed, you know? Yeah. So I don't know that I'm going to have another child.
You know when this time, when you get the call. And I think that's one of the things that we did it, I think it was spoken about through the lines, but we didn't say it directly. And I think it's worth pointing to, you you talked a lot about your body speaking to you and I'm a firm believer that we're being spoken to at all times. That we're getting messages from our body, our subconscious, our intuition.
You know, spirit, God, you know, like whatever you subscribe to. And a lot of what, you know, I think it's like you get these little messages, but you don't honor them. You push them aside. Don't listen. Right. And I think a lot of what you're talking about is like, tune into that. if tune into that little voice, tune into what it's saying, don't worry about where it's coming from. But if it's there, it's there for a reason.
Gary Montalvo - 45:44.834
Right? And developing the trust within yourself to go, okay. And yeah, cause sometimes that little message is bringing, is here to stir things up.
Right. No, I agree. I totally agree.
It's here to stir things up. So you're like, I don't want to go there right now. But yeah, listening to that intuition, you know, developing the choir, which is why I think journaling is such a beautiful practice, because that's a place where you can really be with yourself and answer those questions and listen. So thank you, Betsy, for coming to the show and sharing your story and sharing your wisdom.
Thank you, Kerry.
My pleasure, my pleasure. So we'll put the link to your book and I don't think I have a link for your course, but if you give me a link to the course, I'll put it in the bio in the show notes as well so that people can find you. Okay. All right. Thank you, Betsy. Thank you. I think there's a shift that's happening. This idea of doing everything right, accomplishing all the things and then realizing that it's not quite the life that you wanted.
Betsy Pepine - 46:39.854
Perfect.
Gary Montalvo - 46:57.632
It's a common theme that keeps popping up. We've explored it on the show at least a dozen times. Maybe it's the demands of life have changed. Maybe the impact of technology, media, urbanization have reshaped our day-to-day life experience and maybe not always for the better. Whatever the reason, there seems to be this growing awareness that the roles we've been living in, the titles, the expectations, the identities, might not actually reflect who we wanna be or at least the kind of life that we wanna experience. Not because those pursuits weren't worthy or valuable, but because something else is calling, a new purpose, a deeper truth. You're simply ready for more. That's what I felt so deeply in this conversation with Betsy. Her story isn't just about her, it's part of this bigger awakening that I think is happening.
A moment where more more of us are asking, what am I holding onto? Simply because it's what I know or because it's what's expected of me. Who am I if I'm not this title, this role, this version of myself? And maybe the key is to stop looking at it as if we're killing off a past version of ourselves in order to build a new one. Maybe it's about remembering, coming home.
To the parts of you that got buried under performance, under achievement, under the pressure to prove something. So if you're feeling that tension between the life you've built and the one you're being called towards, just know this, you're not alone. You're definitely not broken. You're probably just waking up.
I want to give a huge thank you to Betsy for her honesty and the courage for showing us what it looks like to walk away from the shoulds and walk towards the truth. Don't forget to click that follow button or subscribe button so that you can stay up to date with new episodes which drop every Tuesday. As always, keep listening to your inner nudge, keep questioning those roles and expectations, and keep playing the ownership game.
Gary Montalvo - 49:17.602
I will see you next week.
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.