Episode. Judgment: The Silent Killer of Self-Worth with Dawn Speaks
Transcript
Dawn Speaks - 00:00.206
and I both know this and it's a very old conversation too. Like it's hallmarked and steeped in some, something that happened when you was five and all of that, that had you believe it's not possible for me to do. Those people could do that, but not me. Those are the people who do those kinds of things. I'm not the person who does that kind of thing. So mostly what you're dealing with is people's conversations about themselves that happened long before they ever met you.
That you breaking through. If somebody said to you what you say to yourself, you'd be like, let's go. I'd be like, get your Vaseline. I'm about to take out my earrings. Hold me back. Hold me back. We're about to fight because you talk to yourself in ways that you would never, for the most part, allow someone else to talk to you.
Gary Montalvo - 00:58.606
Bring it back.
Theme Music - 01:02.382
Welcome to The Ownership Game with Gary Montalvo. What would it take to get into the driver's seat of your life and leave your mark? The Ownership Game starts now. This week we are talking about all things judgment. Judgment is one of those sneaky things that's actually hard to talk about.
Because the moment you start exploring it, you realize just how much of your behavior has been shaped by it. And most of the time, we're not even aware that it's happening. It shows up in subtle, yet impactful ways. Especially when it comes to performance. We hold back, we overthink, we shrink, or perfect, or pretend. All because we're trying to control the outcome in some way. That's all judgment.
To further complicate things, judgment also shows up as values and beliefs that were passed down from family and culture and experiences. This is an onion with a lot of layers. So to explore this, I brought in someone that I trust deeply, my friend and longtime partner in Transformation, Dawn Speaks. Dawn is an executive and leadership coach, a speaker, and one of the most grounded truth tellers that I know. We've been working together for years and when I tell you that leading trainings with her is one of my favorite things to do on this planet, I'm not exaggerating. It's always a riot and always a lot of fun and extremely powerful. In this episode, we're gonna unpack how judgment shapes identity, how people pleasing and perfectionism become hoping mechanisms that grow out of judgment and how liberating it can all be when you finally allow yourself to show up as yourself without the mask. If you've ever held yourself back because you didn't want to be too much. If you've ever found yourself performing strength while quietly struggling. If you've been judged or judged yourself for wanting more, for doing less, for taking up space.
Gary Montalvo - 03:22.018
This episode, it's for you. Let's get into it.
Gary Montalvo - 03:29.494
God, I'm so excited. First of all, it's criminal, criminal that I haven't had you on the show yet. It's criminal that I haven't had you on the show. Over a year.
I didn't take it personally.
Gary Montalvo - 03:43.27
That I haven't had you in the show. listeners, Dawn Speaks is one of my dearest friends and a colleague. We've worked together so much at Lime Life and even before that and some other places, programs. And one of my favorite, favorite things to do in the world is actually lead with this woman. I love to be on stage leading with her, because it's always a riot, it's always so much fun, and it's always like, extremely powerful, what happens. So it is criminal that I have not shared her with you yet. But you know what it has done is that there's so many things that we could talk about that I honestly didn't even know. Like, I'm like, what are we going to talk about? There's so many things that we can talk about.
We can talk about anything. We just talk about crazy stuff and have a whole long-winded conversation about it. So, and I didn't feel no way about it, honestly. It's been a busy time. I know it's been a busy time for you. It's been a busy time for me. I knew we was going to eventually come together anyway. So was like no worries at all. But I'm thrilled to be here. That's the big thing. I'm just happy to be here.
So excited, so excited. Okay, let's give the people a little bit of background and history. Let's tell them about you before we get into geeking out about leadership and coaching.
Geeking out about leadership. I love it. Gosh, well, first of all, my name is Dawn Speaks and I have been in the leadership performance development game, if you want to call it that, for the last 20 years. I am what they call an executive leadership strategist. So I work with C-suite executives, primarily getting them...
Dawn Speaks - 05:39.032
to the places they need to be in their performance game, whether it's them individually or with teams, facilitate trainings and keynote speak and all things in between. I'm a brand new author, book is coming down the pipeline. Like, gosh, that was exciting. And I don't know, newly married, I'm like almost a year into this marriage game.
yeeeah
Dawn Speaks - 06:06.946
That's a whole other leadership game right there. Yeah, I mean, there's lots to say and some of it I'm sure will come up during our conversation today, but that's like the short and sweet.
Yeah, yeah. So, and we've been, we've known each other, I guess around 2010, 2011, we met at Limemark Education. And when I was, when I was working for Limelife and I, you know, got charged with running and creating and building this team really and creating this department, Dawn was literally the first call, the first person I thought about.
And thank God that she said yes. But I had nobody else in mind. we were there together. I think we overlapped for about five and a half years.
Yeah, about five and a half years. It was divine. Like, you know, it's one of those moments, y'all, where, you know, I had been working independently, consulting, running and facilitating trainings around restorative justice and, you know, doing like impact work. And so I was kind of doing my own thing solo. Good. It's no problem.
And then I get this incredible call from Gary, like, hey, so I know you're doing your own thing, you're your solo thing. You're an entrepreneur, but would you be interested in this, you know, I don't even think he presented it as an opportunity, though I did, you know, hear it as such, but he was like, I'm doing a lot of work with people and I need somebody else who understands what it looks like to,
Gary Montalvo - 07:53.582
you
to do this kind of work, which the kind of work that I'm talking about is not just empowerment, but it's leadership development. was training, it was working with people, especially because we were working with brand new, I'll say brand new entrepreneurs in lots of respects, but like they also had no capacity. And this is not to denigrate anybody. Like people did what they, they did what they knew to do.
But suddenly people were flooded with, they went from a business of one to a business of 500, you know? Like they were building teams and they didn't know how to interact with people and how to communicate and all of that. And so I was thrilled when Gary asked me, he was like, so would you mind, you know, giving up your business? I was like, done, let's go.
Lucky us. that's probably a really good place to start because, so I mean, we both work with entrepreneurs a lot. one of the things that often happens with entrepreneurs is that they get in the game because they have a vision or a talent or skill, right? They know how to do something. They know how to make cupcakes really well.
Yeah.
Gary Montalvo - 09:09.59
And then you get in the game and then you realize that making cupcakes is just like 10 % of the business, right? That there is like learning how to deal with money, learning how to talk about yourself and market yourself, learning how to sell, learning taxes, operations, and all this other stuff. And so much of that stuff is confronting for us at so many levels, especially when you are what I call heart centered.
Right? When you, you know, which is like that you are passion driven, that you are vision driven, that you're not necessarily in it for like the money, but you're really more in it for the impact. And so you get slapped in the face with, you know, that and you get stopped. And yes, whether you're a new entrepreneur, I think that happens also.
whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur, because it's just like the next levels, right? And so one of the things that we really worked with people on is supporting them and getting out of their own way, if you will, right? Learning to get out of their own way so that they can now take the steps that are scary. You know, take the actions they've been avoiding. You know, go to places.
Exactly.
Gary Montalvo - 10:34.104
that they weren't willing to go before because that's where all the new stuff is, right? That's where all the growth for the businesses. So we have been privy to really supporting people in the areas that stop them, in the things that smacks them in the face where they hit their tracks, right? So I thought that that's kind of what we could center this conversation on. You know, like what are some of the...
things that we see get in the way for people and what are some of the things that we do to help them or have done to help them.
Yeah, you know, like when you ask this question almost immediately what comes up? like What things stop us or what things stop people that we work with right? Almost always what's there first is whatever fear That's like they're about their capacity. What do mean when I say that? I mean like You know if you don't know yourself as
If you don't have a relationship with yourself as somebody who's like, can do it, anything is possible. Then ultimately the first thing that most of us don't, right? I've got my own thing, right? No matter how many years in the game. And that right there is like number one, like your thought about what you can or can't handle that gets in the way of whatever could be possible, right?
which most of us don't, by the way.
Dawn Speaks - 12:12.31
And so ultimately what I mostly found myself dealing with when I'd be working with entrepreneurs is their own conversations about themselves. Like, I never did this before. I don't know how to coach people who are, you know, or deal, you know, but it would all be around their own hesitancy and their own fear about what they felt like their capacity is. If you don't think you have capacity, like...
strength, you know, to do something, then that's going to be right there. Like, it's just right there.
You you wake up in the morning they're like hello They're staring at you above the bed going hello. Hi, you ready?
You don't have no control over that and it's always there and it's a, you know, you and I both know this and it's a very old conversation too. Like it's hallmarked and steeped in some something that happened when you was five and all of that that had you believe it's not possible for me to do. Those people could do that, but not me. Those are the people who do those kinds of things. I'm not the person.
who does that kind of thing. So mostly what you're dealing with is people's conversations about themselves that happened long before they ever met you, that you breaking through.
Gary Montalvo - 13:34.592
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just gonna put a different hat on it. It's judgment, right? It's judgment. You're essentially judging yourself incredibly harshly, which we seem... We're so good. Because mostly we don't... Like, the things that we say about ourselves, we would never say to another person or another person.
Okay, don't get me riled up because, right, you and I have had this conversation. If you talked with, if somebody said to you what you say to yourself, you'd be like, let's go. Yeah. I mean, Gary and I grew up in New York, right? So I'm from the Bronx. I'd be like, get your Vaseline. I'm to take out my earrings. I'm taking, somebody, yo, get Vaseline. Hold me back. Hold me back. We about to fight because...
You talk to yourself in ways that you would never, for the most part, allow someone else to talk to you.
Yeah. Yeah. I always, the title of, you know, the, working title of my book that I have going on in the back of my head that I'm going to write someday because you're going to get on me to write it. It's like, stop messing with yourself. There's nothing wrong with you. Like stop messing with yourself. Like it's, we, we mess with ourselves so much. Like we literally sit there and like,
Right?
Dawn Speaks - 14:52.329
that's so good!
Gary Montalvo - 14:58.294
nitpick all the little things and and what's wrong and why i didn't do it right and i didn't do it you know it's
It's like picking that scab that your parents, your mom used to be like, stop picking that, stop touching that. Yeah.
Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend a few, about a year and a half ago. So those of you that are following my journey, I closed my business, my coaching business to go work at Limelife and then Dawn did the same thing. And then I restarted my business about a year and a half ago, two years now. And, you know, I was having a conversation with someone and I had just like...
close this contract with one of my consulting contracts. It was like $10,000 that I had just signed this contract. But the gist of the conversation that I had was having was, yeah, man, I'm not growing as fast as I thought I was going to grow. it's getting, it's it's been much harder to do this business this time around. And I'm not in New York. I don't have my people. And the whole gist of the conversation was like all the things that are wrong and all the things that are struggling.
And she was just like excuse me she was just like how long did it take you the first time to have a ten thousand dollar client and i had this moment where i just went like god i'm such a jerk like i'm such a jerk like i just had this amazing accomplishment and i'm not celebrating it i just like i'm literally going it's not good enough it's not wrong.
Gary Montalvo - 16:36.238
It's like issues like it took me like five six years to do that the first time you know and I had accomplished in less than a year this time around and she was just like we yeah like you get and I'm like, yeah, yeah
Yeah, the amount of grace in space and to your point about the judgment that we just keep rattling around. think to your point, I know I said fear, but that judgment, it was, it certainly was a huge part of the work. You know, when I would work with leaders, right? It would be like, you know, I didn't generate this much income this month. I'd be like, so
You a seasoned salesperson? I mean, I'm just asking, just for the conversation. No, this is my first time ever taking on direct sales. OK, this is your first time. OK. And how much are you trying to make? Whatever amount they say, $5,000 a month. And I go, OK. And then I go, and how many team members do you have now? They say things. You have to catch the words, I only have 20 people now. So you.
That's you, you personally onboarded, brought on 20 people. Yeah, how long did it take you to do that? It's taken a long time. It's been six months. I was like, do you know how many people I know who've been in this industry 10 years? And I've been talking to them a whole year and they haven't had one new person come on their team? Like the...
inability, I'll say it this way, the inability of us as human beings to give ourselves grace and space is, you know, is mostly what you're at work on when you're working with people, right? Like, I don't spend a lot of time, well, as a coach, I don't spend any time telling people what to do. I'm like, that ain't my job. I mean, I could, but what would that do? The work is in the discovery, you know, for that person, right?
Dawn Speaks - 18:40.258
But it's like, mostly what I'm at work on with people more than anything is having them look at the amount of space and grace they don't give themselves when it comes to it all. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Gary Montalvo - 18:55.552
And the, you know, the judgment thing also is such a sneaky little thing. Excuse me. It's such a sneaky little thing because it can disguise itself. Like for me, it disguised itself as like working hard.
I know that one.
Working hard. gotta earn my place in the room. I gotta outwork everybody. Yes, you know, um and And here's the thing about it. It's made me very successful.
Yeah?
Right? It's made me very successful. I've accomplished a lot in my life by working hard. And... But when you stop and you break it down and you look at it, the working hard is trying to... It's a judgment on myself. It's... I haven't earned that yet. I... When I compare myself to others, I have to rank here.
Gary Montalvo - 20:05.922
when, you know, when like I have to prove to everyone that I am worthy or I have to prove to myself or have to prove to my mother or whoever it is that I'm running around trying to prove to. Yes. Right. And at the end of the day, it's a judgment. And so what it robs me of is like, yes, it's success. It helps me. I'm successful. But it also shows up in ways where it robs me of my peace of mind because
you don't just get to be, right? You don't just get to be as in like, my presence is enough, I don't need to earn anything, I don't need to, like, I get to just like, you know, just because I am.
No doubt.
Dawn Speaks - 20:49.518
I mean, everything you just said is 100, 100, 100 % valid. Then there's like, I don't even want to say another piece, but what I'll add to what you just conveyed. It's a way of operating that becomes bankrupt. See, you can't, whatever juice you got out of working hard, like say at 15, right? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
We build our work ethic. You worked hard, you outworked, you outperformed everybody, right? Well, it produces great results. Like what? Gary outworked, Gary gets the next promotion. Gary gets, you get all the things. But you know, at 45, outworking or working, it's becoming bankrupt now. You can't work enough hours of the day. You can't put in enough time. You can't sit at your computer enough. You can't...
Think enough, like you can't, at some point it starts to become bankrupt because the amount of work or energy or effort or all of that that you need to put in is way more than when you started. And I want to say this really badly, but it's in the realm of like, you know, I'm not out to promote drugs or anything like that, but it's like in the world to hear people tell it, you chasing the hit you got before.
Mm-hmm
Dawn Speaks - 22:15.182
Whatever, you know, like whatever charge you got out of the working hard and the result that it produced, you got, my gosh, wait a minute. I found out that if I work hard, I get this. Well, then you work hard again. But you know, I mean, you're working hard and probably you're working twice as hard to produce that same thing. And you're working again and again and again.
well yeah well cuz cuz then you have it also that it has to be hard that's the other part of that because when it cuz then it's like when it flows you almost go like that was too easy yeah what what's wrong like what happened
Yep.
Dawn Speaks - 22:52.936
way I should get this. It should be easy. there's no way.
Yeah, yeah. And what I've also been like the work that I've been doing for the last couple of years is just like, because what I've noticed is that I'm not, it robbed me of my presence. Because what you're always dealing with is what's next. What's the next thing I have to do?
What's the next thing I have to, you So, you know, it's something that I've been like actively dismantling over the last couple of years to just really allow myself to be present without an agenda, without like, what's the next thing you have to do without this? Like I have to always constantly be creating, you know, proving, promoting somehow, right? And like, it's easy for that to be disguised today because we're living in this...
kind of like hustle culture, right? Where it's just like, always go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. We have our phones in front of us all the time. We're always getting notified. We're getting dinned. We're getting, you know, the time. But what's happening is we don't have the ability to be present. We don't have the ability to quiet our minds and be present. And when you're not present, you're always in reaction. And when you're not present, you can't like...
It's like if you're not present, you can't do the work of creating. You can't do the work of envisioning the future. You can't the work of reflecting. You can't do the work of creating a future life that you want because you're always in this moving, moving, moving, moving, moving.
Dawn Speaks - 24:24.288
It's worse than that, Gary. You wouldn't even be able to think in that way. That ability to think in that way is lost to you. When you in hustle mode, when you're in that, I gotta work hard, when you're in that, I gotta, I gotta mode, it won't even, no other schools of thought, trains of thought, opportunities of thought.
will ever occur for you. if all, if you know, if all your thought is about, you know, I gotta make X, Y, Z amount of money, it'll never occur to you all the various ways that you could make that money. It'll never, and I remember somebody once said to me, I almost cursed this woman out for saying this to me, but I got it later on. I was like, I'm dealing with money. I'm dealing with my finances. I'm, I'm broke. I'm ducked.
Yes.
Dawn Speaks - 25:23.788
She said, Dawn, money is the easiest thing to come by. I was like, Says who? I was like, you know what saying? Like I could have punched her right in the nose. Says who? And then she went through like this series of things. She was like, you could work for it. She was like, you could steal it. She was like, you could borrow it. You could find it. You could, I mean, she must have listed like 10 things about money that I was like.
Now, some of those ways she mentioned weren't far off, but some she mentioned, she was like, you could accumulate it. You could, I mean, like she literally talked about all the, and once I got that, how money became available to me showed up very differently. No different than when we talk about this aspect of leadership or taking action in something.
It's like it'll never show up to you if you don't have yourself be present. Because if all you're present to is the hustle, every other thing is lost to you. becomes this completely, it's not even available.
You're pointing to another interesting slice of judgment, right? So one of the ways that I find we judge ourselves the hardest is money, right? Whether we have it, whether we don't, how much we have of it, how much you like, all of that, right? And what's interesting about that too is that I'm realizing that some judgments are...
almost constructed in their societal almost because like the conversation of money is not just one individual. It's like a conversation, right? It's like an ecosystem that you are, that teaches us how to relate to money and people that have money are better and people that don't are not. And if you don't have it, you're irresponsible. Like it just goes on and on all these different ways that we judge ourselves and society judges us.
Gary Montalvo - 27:32.264
at times as well you you wanted to say something I could tell you about to go jump through the screen
What that? Yes. Well, what stood out for me about that was it's a inherited conversation. You got nothing to do with that conversation that came up. That conversation had little to nothing to do with you. It's a one you were born into.
One that kind of rattled around you in conversations from your parents, your grandparents. Like that whole thing where you talked about working hard, that's not a foreign conversation to me. Like working hard is like in my DNA, like cut me open. You're going to find, that part right there works hard. And that's only because in inherited conversation I got, I looked at my grandparents, I looked at my, I was raised by my great grandmother and my great aunt.
They worked hard. I don't think I ever saw my great aunt, who really is my mom, my mom. I don't think I ever saw my mom take a day off. For what? To do what? Like, and I was conditioned, like, sick day, don't be sick. Take a day off. It was many, many, many years. I think I might have been well into my late 30s before it was like, I'm sick.
Or I don't feel good, I need to take a day. And I think the organization I worked for, my director then, she was the one who implemented like mental health days. I was like, mental health? What do mean? I'm not crazy. She was like, no, but sometimes you overload it. I was like, go figure. So, but my point is saying that is those are inherited conversations.
Gary Montalvo - 29:20.194
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, get it immigrant parents that you know, like work hard and keep your head down and that was part of it. Yeah
But to this day, don't understand when I be like, yeah, I work from home. What that mean? How you working from home? I'm like, mom, I'm at home and I'm working. And then she'll be like, but you're talking to me. I was like, I can do that. She don't understand. And she don't even understand what executive leadership strategy. She's like, somebody's paying you for that? Yes, mom. You don't have to go into no office? No, ma, I don't have to go into no. Well, how they tracking your time? I was like, ma, that's not how I get paid.
You don't get, but you know what I'm Well, my mother's part of a very old school model of working. I mean, I'm being facetious when I say it, but some of what I just said is true when it comes to my mom, but it's like, that's not her life. worked from home.
Yeah
Gary Montalvo - 30:16.346
Yeah. Yeah. So some of these judgments are, you know, inherited and part of the ecosystem that you swim in. So you got to be aware of that too, because sometimes you don't even know that the judgments that you're applying to yourself are not really yours, right? Like they're not even ones that you chose based on values, which is why this conversation of being present and having space to pause, it's so important because if you don't have the space to be present and pause, then you don't have the space to go in an inquiry and actually ask yourself, well, what are the values that I want to live by? What are the qualities of life that I want to experience? And then see if you're a match, if this hustle culture may not be a match for that, right?
Or there might be other areas of your life that are not a match, but because we're always in this go, go, go, go, go, you don't have access to doing that work. And so you're just responding, putting out fires, jumping to the next emergency, jumping to the next pick up the kids from school, dinner, deadline, know, whatever it is, right? Running, running, this, know, which is why I think the work that we do is so...
valuable because it forces people to stop. It forces people and we're asking questions that force them to look.
To look and to get into, you and I were talking about this before, the discovery. I could tell you something all day, but nothing. I remember somebody years ago explained to me, you could explain balance to someone, but balance doesn't really show up until you get on the bike and pedal. I could give you all of the...
Dawn Speaks - 32:14.242
the logic behind balance. could give you the scientific evidence of what balance means and all of that could give you equations and all of that. And then balance doesn't really land for you until when you're first on that bike and you're learning how to ride what that means to balance. Right. So like all of that, which you're pointing to, Gary, that's in discovery. Like, let's go on a hunt. Let's go look, let's go see.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is so good because that is one of the ways that we judge ourselves is that we think we are some way.
you say? Don't you say
That we have these opinions about who we are and what we can do and what we can't do and what personalities and what I like and what I don't. It's like we so so so we think that we this fixed thing. And so then what happens is anything that shows up outside of that. It doesn't compute.
But what really happens is what Dawn is pointing to. You're no longer in a discovery about what's possible for you. And we already distinguished that a lot of these judgments are inherited. So now you are this fixed thing that you inherited that it's not really you that you haven't chosen.
Gary Montalvo - 33:44.03
And you're judging yourself against them. And so you're not really redefining yourself. So it just it's like this loop that just gets, you know.
It's Groundhog Day every day with that. You never get out of it. And it's a really perfect intersection, Gary, for some of the work that you and I are doing. We talk about, you know, a life of circumstances. You know, you talk about what people are dealing with and what they bump up against. And most of the circumstances that people are dealing with are themselves. You're the circumstance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
It ain't even like the things out here in the world, right? Like I'm in my house right now. I mean, there are things happening in the world. I don't want to operate like there isn't. But most of it that's happening in the world, it's not really coming at you. It's mostly you. You're the circumstance. Yeah. Your thoughts, your feelings, your opinions, your judgments, your assessments. That's all your circumstances. And if you look real hard, actually, that's a lie. You ain't even got to look that hard.
You just got to look a little bit. Everything. That's your circumstance, your new circumstance. And it's all created by who? You. Nobody else out there is really coming at you with things. It's mostly all the stuff you create. You create. And I had a conversation with my husband one day. And we were talking, you know, just in general about people. And we were like, people in the most general sense. This is not like a catch-all for everybody.
Dawn Speaks - 35:18.72
are committed to being unhappy. Committed to, like, but, you know, not because that that's where they're going, but because that you operate from these conversational domains and these inherited conversations. Most of these inherited conversations that people have are not positive conversations. Yeah. We're going to talk about negative, positive, right? Yeah. Most of the conversations that people inherited or steeped in, are mostly conversations that are designed to make you feel like you're lacking, you're absent, you're insufficient, it's not enough, need more, do more, have more, be more, get better, be better, say better, do better. It's like all designed in a conversation called something is absent where you with me something's wrong. Yeah, something's wrong with me. Yeah, and you're what you're saying is so good You know, um, I had something I wanted to say and it escaped me I was getting so excited. It lost me but we know but what you're saying is so good because we're just you know, goes back to what I was saying earlier it's all the ways that we mess with ourselves and and and I remember what I was wanted to say it's like You know.
Come back!
Gary Montalvo - 36:38.028
something that happens to Dawn and I often is that we'd be on the phone or we're working with somebody, we're an event, leading an event, or we're on the phone coaching somebody. And people start to fight for their something's wrong. They literally are fighting us. And no, you don't understand. If you've had my life or if you or no, I can't do that, or you don't know, or you don't, and I'm like, I've had these moments, I'm like, why am I fighting right now for your possibility harder than you're fighting for yourself? Like, why am I fighting harder for what's possible for you? You know, and I've even had to say, I'm like, listen, you are never gonna get me to buy this story that you can't do this. Like, I'm not, like, I do not subscribe to that. You can, you are never gonna convince me of that at all. Like, you know, I'll come back.
I am only, I am only gonna fight for your possibility. I am only gonna fight for your potential. I'm only gonna fight for your, you know, but we get so stuck in these like, judgments, identities and stories about ourselves that we literally like fight. We fight other people. We fight other like, you know, you fight the coach, you fight the coach and you just paid money to for
Yes.
Dawn Speaks - 38:02.35
Fight to be right about that your life can't work. Just think about how ridiculous you got that's got to be. You want to fight me to be right about your life can't work. Wow. Yeah. I used to love those conversations. I mean, I still love them. I used to be like, listen, man, I'm not going to fight you. Like you want to be right about your life don't work. Okay, that's cool. Tell me how that's going. What's that like?
What's that like?
Bye! You having fun yet?
Like, how's that going? Is it good? You know, like, yeah. And, you know, it always makes me think of, you know, we are, and I say we as human beings, we are our own worst enemy in that we, when we don't allow ourselves to discover and get present to what really could be possible.
Yeah.
Dawn Speaks - 39:05.826
you know, like when we get into that place and it's important to, you know, this is where you start to, listen, this is where you start to do the work. But I don't want to leave people with like, I've got it all together. That's so true. There is no, there is no done, right? There is your own, there's always the doing because you know, someone once asked me,
They were like, you're so whatever way, like you're so helpful to people. You always pour into people so much. Like, you know, that must be your calling. I'm like, well, maybe, you know, I certainly am a servant led person. can't say I'm not. I'm like, but I don't wake up in the morning ready to be of service. most days I wake up and my phone rings and somebody's like calling. I look at the phone. I'd be like, what they want.
Like I look at the phone, I'm looking at it hard. I'm like, and I got a few things to say. I got some choice words like this mother lover. Like, you know, like I've got a whole thought process going on before I ever clicked the phone and go, Hey, what's up? I'm not sitting around being mother Teresa. And you know, like, I just want to give to people. Most times people ask me for something.
I almost immediately was there like, no, no, no. That's even though the title of my book, my book is called, it's titled, No, I Ain't Doing That.
I remember when you started saying that.
Gary Montalvo - 40:53.568
And I was her boss at the time, so she was just like, mm, I ain't doing that.
Bye!
It's like, oh, OK.
Hey, don't we gonna do this project blah blah blah. Well, it didn't start out with the no, ain't doing that. Definitely started out with that. Who doing that? Like, I did it was like, not me. but yeah, you know, like, just getting you know, to, to, I think what I'm pointing to is that when you operate in the space of like to discover something,
Yeah
Dawn Speaks - 41:29.794
There is something that becomes wholly and completely available to you. But if you're going to continue to operate in your, like you're a thing, like you just said, right? Like you start to recognize you're not a thing. You're locked into anything. You're not locked into any way of operating, you know, you're not locked into them old inherited conversations. You got an opportunity for something pretty damn spectacular to show up beyond anything you could have imagined.
Yeah. And I just, when you were sharing, we were joking about the, I'm not doing that. And, but what I also became present to is that, you know, cause that's really coming from a place of like honoring your boundaries, your, know, how you choose to spend your time. Like the context of that is like, I'm not a team player or I'm not gonna, you know, the context is really from that doesn't work for me, these are my boundaries, this is how I want to contribute, let's work something else out. And, you know, but what, requires you to not be in judgment of yourself in order to access that. Right? Because how many of you have had the experience of wanting to say something
Yes.
Dawn Speaks - 42:50.026
first
Gary Montalvo - 42:57.452
Right? But now you're judging yourself. You're judging that what may happen. You're judging that you may get in trouble. You're judging that it may not land well. You're judging that they may not like it. You're judging that people are going to think this about you. Judging, judging, judging, judging, judging. And so you don't say what there is for you to say. You don't say what there is. yeah. And in those moments, what was really happening was, like, Dawn was pointing to inefficiency in the plan. She was pointing to, she was...
pointing to it like, that's not gonna give us the result that we want. Like that's not gonna work. not, that execution is not gonna work. That's gonna be a waste of my time. You know, like. Yeah. And that wouldn't have happened if you had stopped judging, if you hadn't stopped judging yourself. Yeah. You know?
Yeah, that's really powerful because, know, even me saying that, right, you know, we're joking, but, you know, Gary certainly has known me a long time. That came over time, you know, that ability to be like, no, I'm not doing that because who I was in an environment that, you know, listen, you can see me, I'm a black woman who took on corporate roles and all of that.
That, even that aside, how I was raised was like, go to work, you do the job, you work as long, however many hours you need to work, you work as hard as you need to work, and all of those things, right? Whether it was based on me being a woman, being a black woman, you know, I'm the child of, you know, some very hardworking people, my people from South Carolina, and you know, all of that, right, sits, like, kind of operates in the background of, like, how to work.
It took many, many years before I became somebody who could be like, that doesn't work. And that didn't stop me from being a team player. Like without taking anything from anybody else, I couldn't be more of a team player. Like what you need me to do? I'll do that. Don't worry about it. I got it. All of that still lives there at the same time of being like, whatever that thing that just got said.
Dawn Speaks - 45:14.252
that can't be executed, not in the way you're talking about. Some could be executed, you know, like, because my commitment was also to creating value and having to have workability and all of that. But again, to your point, Gary, I had to get to a place where I didn't judge myself for having a differing opinion or having a differing thought, because what used to be there for many, many years was like,
Girl, you better not say nothing. Nobody gonna listen to you. You don't have... These people know more than you. And all of those judgments about myself like, well, I don't really understand this particular market or this has not been my niche. So let me just sit back. Like the judgment about my capability. Yeah. So yeah, you're right. There had to be like a...
you know, a moment where you get for yourself like, wait a minute, I got something to contribute. Yeah, yeah, now it's perfect.
Yeah.
Beautiful. Well, we're just like, we could do three more hours of this. All day. So Dawn and I have been, you know, really like workshopping this topic for a few weeks now because we, you know, we noticed that
Gary Montalvo - 46:41.986
You know, we coach a lot of high performers and we coach people that are up to a lot of, you know, big goals. and, and we also, and these are people that already have a certain amount of training, you know, coaching underneath them. they're not necessarily like, we're not talking about like brand new people. And that's fine too. That's no judgment against that. But my point is that even when you are someone who has experience, accomplishments, you know, you're up to stuff, you're a go-getter, you still get stopped, right? You still have areas where you struggle, where you get challenged, where you... And even if you don't stop, you slow down in that area, right? Like there was like a, you lose momentum now because of this thing. And so we started really looking at, what can we provide?
people to support them in like that next level of the conversation, right? What can we provide people to support them in developing tools so that they don't get that friction and stop, but they can kind of keep going. And as you can see, a lot of what we landed on is really a conversation on how do we dismantle judgment and how do we operate in a way that judgment that, you know judgments are not weighing us down. And again, as you saw, this conversation of judgment has a lot of legs. It's not like you're just judging yourself. Like you're judging yourself, you're judging yourself with other values, you're judging other people, you're judging who you think you are. Like it just goes on and on and on. It's like an onion that has a lot of layers. So what we decided to put together was a one-day event in New York City on July 26th.
This is going to be a day where we're going to be supporting people and really dismantling their judgments and creating themselves, like actually creating themselves, not who you think you are, not who you inherited, not how you, but like literally having an experience. We're going to walk you through an experience where you're going to have, you're going to have the experience of creating yourself newly, right? Like free of judgments from the past. And we're so excited.
Gary Montalvo - 49:04.014
We're so p-
my gosh. It's like, is it July 26th? Yeah. Are we almost there, mom? Like, yeah. It's so good, y'all, because, you know, like Gary said, that conversation for judgment, it permeates every living, breathing component of your life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Dawn Speaks - 49:30.286
You you think, oh, I only judge myself at work because I'm whatever, the low man on the totem pole or I just started or whatever way, right? You think it's only in one area, but it's all over the place. And it's got, you know, I have the word, I love to use the word diabolical, right? Because there's a diabolical nature to it, right? Because it has you say things that sound right, that make sense.
but it's all based in some judgment about yourself. Like, you know, and so if you could start to dismantle, like Gary just said, I like that word. If you could start to dismantle that judgment and all the ways and places in your life where it permeates, the question that I ask you is, well, then what would be possible if you weren't spending all your doggone day
Yeah.
Dawn Speaks - 50:27.542
judging yourselves, making yourselves small, you know, having conversations with yourself about, not me, not right now, not at this time. If you weren't engaged in all of that, then what could you be engaged with?
Yeah.
So I'm so excited. I'm so excited.
What would happen is you would really become, I don't know if this is proper grammar or English, but you would be void of conditions, right? Like unconditional. the reason we call the event Beyond Circumstances is because the impact of all of these judgments is that you become a circumstantial human being, right? The way that you operate when you show up in life,
what you get committed to, what you don't get committed to. Yes! All, you know, all really is now in relationship to the circumstances and how you're responding to them. And so we've got to dismantle that so that your creations can be beyond circumstances. Yes. be free of the circumstances, avoid of them, right? And so that's what's really possible, that you can become a human being that is just creating.
Gary Montalvo - 51:44.758
Regardless of what life is throwing at them. You're still creating yourself and creating the life that you want without any of that stuff beyond circumstances So the website for the event is called beyond circumstances NYC comm it's gonna be in July 27th, if you're gonna spend a full day 26, thank you. My bad. That's why I need you here, right?
27.
Gary Montalvo - 52:08.974
The 26th is that Saturday. So, you work folks can show up without taking time off. Um, and, it's going to be experiential. You're going to have exercises. You're going to be working with other people working with, know, so it's going to be, it's done. I really create holistic experiences that we're not just talking at you for, you know, eight hours a day. We're creating exercises that are dynamic and to have you experience some of the things that we're talking about.
So we would love, love, love to see you there. This early bird pricing, can't, I can't remember what it is, but jump on it right away.
Dawn Speaks - 52:49.909
Beyond circumstances NYC.com that's where you're going to find it.
That's right. yeah, we can't wait to see you there. It's going to be midtown Manhattan, so if you're anywhere in the Tri-State area, you can get to it super easy. we can't wait to see you. And Dawn, my goodness, what a fun conversation.
guys we could have talked for five hours.
This has made me, this has only made me more excited for our event, like I cannot wait.
And I temper myself, obviously I'm being responsible because I'm on a podcast and this is going out to the world and all kinds of places.
Gary Montalvo - 53:26.306
Thank you. Thank you for having my editor save time in the beeping.
You what I'm saying? Like, I was being very responsible, but Gary already knows. I cuss. Like, just comes on out. So, but I say that because, you know, part of the conversation that will take place during our one-day event is we're going to talk real talk. And we are committed that you confront whatever circumstance you say is in the way that is out of the way.
And so be ready. Be ready.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Don't start. Do not start. Now we're getting spirituals. my goodness.
Gary Montalvo - 54:10.318
Hmm
Gary Montalvo - 54:18.176
Okay, my love, I love you so much. Thank you so much for being here. Of course, you'll be back many times. I'm sorry it's taking me so long.
love you. Criminal, criminal. No, no, it was the right time. was when the time was right and it was right right now. I had a wonderful time. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. I love it and I love you.
I love you right back. We'll talk soon. Judgment is tricky. It's always running in the background, shaping how we move through the world, how we see other people, how we see ourselves. And as I said in my intro, mostly we're not even aware of it. And to further complicate this, not all judgment is bad. There's judgment that's actually useful and necessary.
Mwah.
Gary Montalvo - 55:08.652
what I call functional judgment or discernment. It's the part of us that says, do I have enough time to cross the street right now? Am I safe in this parking lot? Is this a scam? Judgment helps us navigate life. It sets boundaries. It keeps us safe. But then there's the other kind of judgment, the shame driven, the ego based kind. This is the voice that says you should have known better.
You're too much, you're not enough. It's fear-based, it's rooted in old stories, in programming, in trauma. And it leads to all kinds of behaviors that can interfere with getting things done or just experiencing your life fully. The trick is not to try to do away with judgment. That's not really possible, you can't. The trick is to become aware of it.
Judgment becomes harmful when it's unconscious. When it's automatic, when we don't realize we're making decisions, showing up or holding back based on something that we've never questioned or chosen consciously. Once you bring self-awareness to it, you have a choice. You have options. Then you can bring discernment with compassion into your life. You can create space for something better. Judgments that empower you.
Judgments that create truth, integrity, and freedom. If that's something you want to explore deeply, I want to personally invite you to join me and Dawn at our upcoming event in New York City on July 26th, Beyond Circumstances. This is going to be a transformational experience. It's designed to help you get clear on who you are, what you want, and what's been unconsciously running the show.
This is going to be a masterclass in becoming aware of your hidden judgments and how they've been sabotaging you all along. If you're ready to step into a bigger version of yourself, check out the link in the show notes. I would love to see you there. As always, keep leaning in, keep listening to yourself, and keep playing the ownership game. I'll see you next week.
Gary Montalvo - 57:26.766
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.