Episode. How Stillness Heals: Channeling, Energy Work, and The End of Hustle Culture - Dale Allen-Rowse
Transcript
Dale Allen - Rowse - 00:00
I wasn't looking for it, but it just appeared that way and it became the main tool for my healing. And I was writing the second book to save my life. That's how serious it was getting because I was so sick and I couldn't leave the house and I couldn't make an income. I couldn't work. I couldn't do anything. And it was the one tool that I had that seemed to be laying a path forward for me. I'd write every day and it would just show me more and show me more and show me more of what
I needed to learn and know. And if you want to call that my subconscious that's bringing that forward, that's fine too. If you want to call it from something outside of me, that's fine too. I don't try and put a label on it. I just channel source and I tap into source and because this is the thing is I think that we've really gotten off in the Western world is that we think we need a god or an entity or a deity outside of ourselves in order to do the thing, in order to change your life, in order to go manifest two billion dollars. You think that you need to pray to something rather than just going and doing it, and that's ultimately what I got to that removed any need for an entity being or god that I, in and of myself, can imbue into my own personal way that which I need in order to go and do the thing myself. I don't need a middleman. And that's the personal power that shamanism puts you in. It gives you the controls to the matrix so that you can go do it without help or fear or anything. You can just stand in power and get it done.
Theme Music
Welcome to the ownership game with Gary Montalvo. What would it take to get into the driver's seat of your life and leave your mark? The ownership game starts now.
Gary Montalvo - 02:02
My guest today is someone who pulled me in the moment I came across him online. I didn't even know why at first. It was just pure instinct. But the moment I read his personal story and how he channeled the writing of his books, I knew that I needed to talk to him and have him on the show. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself. Dale Allen Rose, has lived many lives, from a bullied gay kid growing up in a conservative religious home, to a professional ballet dancer, to touring with Celine Dion in Vegas, to building a real estate empire in LA. But underneath all of that success, there was burnout, there was trauma, and a nervous system that was on the edge. Eventually, his body forced him to stop. And that's when things got interesting.
What followed was a journey into stillness, into healing, and into something much bigger than he expected. He discovered that he had this ability to channel books, meaning he was writing with specificity on topics that he knew nothing about. This put him on a path to exploring indigenous wisdom, becoming a student of shamanism, and ultimately finding the clarity and the peace that eluded him through all his earlier achievements. If you've ever felt like you've done everything right but you still feel disconnected. If you've ever felt stuck in hustle mode and like you can't hear your own intuition anymore. If you've ever been curious about spiritual gifts but unsure how to make sense of any of it, this is the episode for you. Because this isn't just a story of transformation.
It's a reminder that your healing and your power are found in the stillness that you've been avoiding. Let's get into it.
Hi, Dale. Thank you for joining me today. I'm excited to talk to you.
Dale Allen - Rowse - 04:06
Thank you so much. excited to be here. I'm actually a big fan.
Gary Montalvo - 04:09
Aw, thank you. you know, it's interesting. I was, before Dale jumped on, I was sharing that I, when I saw his, when I saw him online and I was like, okay, I got to talk to this guy. I don't know why I'm talking to this guy. I don't know what I'm talking to him about, but I have to have him on my show. And it was just such a like instinctive, you know, ⁓ intuition that just came out of nowhere. And they were just like,
you got to talk to this guy and thankfully you agreed to say yes. So thank you for that. I have no idea where this conversation is going to go, but I'm excited about that.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 04:48
Well, good. Let's just see where it wants to go.
Gary Montalvo - 04:51
Yeah, I think, know, before we, I do have some ideas that I want to talk to you about, but I think before we do that, let's give people some background, because you've had a kind of a fascinating ⁓ many lifetimes, ⁓ you know, of different things you've done. And there's just a breadth of talent and experience that you bring to the table. And I think it would just be helpful to give paint people a bit of a picture of who we're talking to. So take us back to the beginning.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 05:21
Okay, all right. So yeah, so I was raised just outside of Vancouver, British Columbia from the Pacific Northwest and super gay kid like gay gay like I'm way more butch now than I used to be when I was 10.
Gary Montalvo - 05:34
I
Dale Allen – Rowse - 05:38
You know, and my father was a Baptist minister and my mother was a substitute school teacher, very, you know, unoriginal, very, know, all things that are supposed to be good. And yet within that environment, I experienced extreme like trauma because of just the homophobic environment that my parents were living in. Not that they were doing anything wrong. They were doing what everybody else on the block was doing, right?
But I myself experienced it ⁓ as trauma because I wasn't allowed to be myself. And at that same time, ⁓ it's important to note that my family kind of has two sides. There's the good Christian side, and then there's the indigenous side, the people who lived on the reservation that we didn't talk about because they were, you drunks and they were bad people and they weren't Christians, right? And that whole thing really honestly saved my life.
Because I knew that there was other people like my cousins who were in being involved with thought constructs and being taught differently. And just knowing that there were people in the world who thought differently than my parents was enough to keep me alive. Because I was a young kid with a suicide journal in elementary school. I was like that level of traumatized and shut down just from the lack of safe spaces.
At school, at church, at home. Like there was, of those three, none of them were safe for me. And I was horrifically bullied at school just because I was so gay, although probably auditioning for Goldilocks and Goldilocks and the Three Bears may not have been the best path forward for my social life. But there I was.
Gary Montalvo - 07:10
Yeah.
You have to answer the call when you get it.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 07:28
A construction paper wig. Anyways, so yes. So that was kind of like the background and I knew I wasn't safe there. And so from the time I was 14, I was like actively plotting how to leave my parents, escape my parents essentially. And I left and ran away to a ballet school, not the circus, but a ballet school. And I had friends who were you know, being picked up from Vancouver and taken to professional ballet training schools across the country. And I'm like, oh, boys in tights? Yeah, sign me up for that. Like that's where I'm going. And so I don't even know that I necessarily wanted to be a performer, but it's just kind of the path I fell into mostly to escape my parents and to be with them. I was 16 when I got accepted to a professional school and moved away from my family.
Gary Montalvo - 08:15
How old were you?
Okay. And where did the school take you? Where was the school?
Dale Allen – Rowse -08:26
Royal Winnipeg Ballet in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Gary Montalvo - 08:28
Winnipeg.
I've been to Winnipeg. Have you? Yeah, I have. wow. So in my previous, ⁓ you know, my previous job, I managed the Canadian market as well as the US market. And so I spent a lot of time in Canada. Half my team was Canadian. ⁓ So I got to go up there a lot. They always made the best team members. It was so nice.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 08:55
You
Gary Montalvo - 08:57
It was a little difficult explaining to my American team why their benefits were different than theirs, but other than that. Yeah, yeah, Winnipeg was one of the places that we got to go to.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 09:08
Yeah, so that's where I did like my professional training. And then from there, I was picked up by a company in Montreal and I moved to Montreal, lived there a bunch of years and just had the best gay time ever. It was amazing. And I was touring the world and I was, you know, doing all the things and all the performing and, know, it was a really fun time in my life. really was.
Gary Montalvo - 09:29
Awesome. And then you ended up in Vegas, I believe.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 09:33
I ended up in Vegas. my performing career took me through seven different ballet companies that I performed with. But then I knew, like, I kind of wanted a way out of ballet because it's so intense and so extreme in its physical demands. And I was just, you know, I was approaching 30 and I'm like, I don't know if I want to jump up and down for a living anymore.
So I auditioned for the Broadway show Fosse and I got the understudy to the lead, beyond my wildest expectations. And so I only had the opportunity to actually perform the show a few times because I was the understudy, but I was on tour with them and doing all of that and it was super fun and Fosse was a great show, you know, but then that ended and that's when I got picked up by Celine and moved to Vegas.
Gary Montalvo - 10:24
Yeah, and you were working, you were with Celine for quite a while, right?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 10:28
Yeah, I was there from 02 to 05 for three years and the first year was just the creation of the show. So they actually took us to Belgium where Franco Dragone, who is the artistic director of many of the Cirque du Soleil shows, had his headquarters. And so they brought all of us performers to his headquarters in Belgium where we like kind of just worked on creating the show for, you know, six months.
And then we moved to Vegas and then we were still creating the show for another three months after that. And so we opened in March of 03.
Gary Montalvo - 11:05
Yeah, fun. so, and then eventually after that, I think you left and you went to into real estate now.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 11:12
That's right. Yeah, because I'm right. Because by this time I'm 35 and I really don't want to jump up and down for a living anymore. What else can I do? And in Las Vegas at the time, the real estate market was just super hot. Right. And I knew that I was kind of artistically satisfied. So let's go make some money. thinking. So I went with you.
Gary Montalvo - 11:33
Yeah. You're doing both? Wait, did you start out doing both?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 11:38
I did, I knew, yeah, once I moved to Vegas, you we would just do the show at night, but I had the whole day free. And so I'd go and sell houses during the day, and then I'd go into the theater and do the show at night and come on, that was my day for a couple of
Gary Montalvo - 11:50
Years.
Okay. When did the when did the woo woo come into your life? Were you already into it at this point? Or was it around this time? Like, how did you uncover the spiritual world?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 12:06
So,great question by the way, I appreciate that. ⁓ It really started to kick in when my health failed. And while I had always been a spiritual being, and because I just had to understand why my parents hated me, I had to understand like this culture that I found myself in that made no sense to me at all. And so I had to kind of go down my own path. And even as a young child spending time in nature, I would be you know, meditating and, you know, just going inward and, really experiencing myself that way.
Gary Montalvo - 12:40
You need to do that on your own.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 12:42
Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't until my so after real estate, like, let's just skip forward a little bit. I have a big real estate career. Big, big, big. am the professor. I'm teaching all of the real estate agents in my office. There's 425 of them. So I'm teaching all the agents. I'm the director of education. I'm like running the whole place at Keller Williams and Hollywood Hills. And I'm making lots of money and doing all the things and checking all the boxes you're supposed to be doing. And then my nervous system just said, actually you're done because I don't know if you've ever been in a real estate transaction, but it's very stressful. know? So I was first diagnosed in 2014 with funny enough, the same neurological movement disorder as Celine has it's stiff person syndrome or generalized dystonia.
Gary Montalvo - 13:22
Mm-hmm.
Okay, so, but you started having health problems before that, it sounds like, you said 2014, sorry, sorry. yeah. My brain went to 2024. I was like, that's not that long ago. I know you've been doing this longer than that. So I must have missed something. Okay, so 2014 is when you started to experience health problems. so how did you end up, first of all, how's your health?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 14:06
it's much better now, thank you. I appreciate that. It's a journey. I still deal with this every day. ⁓ You know, I don't know that I'll ever be free of it, but I've at least gotten it to the point where I can leave the house, I can work, I can make a living. And there were years where that was not even an option for me.
Gary Montalvo - 14:27
Okay, so walk me through, you start having these health problems and how, you know, how did you end up with like, yeah, how did you end up to spirituality and what did that look like? I know eventually you became a shaman, so I'm guessing you went through some type of initiation.
Gary Montalvo - 14:48
Right. Yeah. So, you know, once my health failed and I had exhausted all of the Western medical options that were available to me. And now mind you, like ⁓ of the three neurological movement disorders, the big ones, Parkinson's, MS and dystonia, dystonia is the only one that won't kill you. And I call it dystonia. Celine calls it stiff person syndrome, which is the layman's term, but I call it dystonia. So, and because it won't kill you, there's not a lot of research that goes into it. Now that's changing with Celine, you know, bringing more attention to it. but there was just nothing. They had no answers. They couldn't, and everything they give me in terms of medications was just making it worse to the point where it's like, I didn't know what was me. I didn't know what was the medication. Like, and you're just in this world and you can't get off the meds because you're afraid to, and you don't know what's, you know, and you're just in this terrible spin.
Of like trying to figure it out while also being medicated, while also getting advice. And I was just, got to the point where I'm like, enough, just stop. And we sold everything. ⁓ We moved out here to the middle of the woods up near Idlewild, California, five acres and exchanged the daily news for ducks and geese. And so I watched them instead of the news.
And just did this whole lifestyle change that also really facilitated me living in the middle of nowhere and being very isolated and giving me the opportunity to have the time to meditate for three hours a day, to have the time to really source for myself answers and solutions that
felt right to me and the way that they just, you know, live in me and to continue that path forward. Now, how that actually really came about and how the shamanism bit came in was just another mind-blowing story. Because during COVID, I was like, okay, I have the time. I've always wanted to write my book. And so I'm just gonna do it.
And I sat down and as soon as I sat down, the main character's name came to me and the title of the book. I was like, okay, that's interesting. Cause it just came to me so clearly. And so I'm like, ⁓ like this is what it's supposed to be. Got it. And so I wrote that down and then I started writing and I'm writing about a fictional character who has my problems, right? And
the story just continues to unspool and go faster and faster and faster. I'm like, God, okay, that's where the story's at. my gosh. Like, and then it starts coming in faster and faster and faster. And so now, like my husband will walk in the room and I'm just typing on my keyboard as fast as I can because the information is coming in so fast and it's so fleeting and so delicate. I don't want to miss it. So I'm taking notes as fast as I can of what I'm being shown, right? And that whole process really like changed my life because suddenly I was dealing in something I didn't know anything about yet was very, very, very profound to the point where like that information was just thundering through me like a locomotive and I couldn't sleep and I couldn't eat and it was just like, what have I done to my life? I've ruined my life by starting to write these books. And so when I was done with my story, my personal story, what I went through, the evolution of myself. When I was done with that, I found an editor who had his doctorate in shamanism. And the book was about shamanism, but I'd never taken a class in it. And I was so confused of why I kept being shown shamanism. And I could only equate it to my relatives who were raised on the reservation that always held a lot of mystery and magic for me, right? And so I think that like that's what I was being kind of shown and taught and everything. And so I took it to this editor and I'm like, I don't understand what's going on here.
Gary Montalvo - 19:02
Hold hold up, hold up for a second. So this editor randomly had a doctorate in shamanism or did you go to him specifically for that?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 19:13
Specifically for it.
Gary Montalvo - 19:14
Okay, so you knew. Okay, I thought it was just like, ⁓ yeah, I happen to have a doctorate in shamanism. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So this is, I'm getting excited. Okay, so continue. You went to him and he helped you make sense of this.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 19:29
Yeah. And he helped me understand what was true, was accurate, which most of it was, which really surprised me. And that made me aware that I was learning through this process. And I have written to date this many books, seven that have been published. I've written 11 and it's all through this process. There's an actual term for it now. I didn't know it back then, but the term for it is called automatic writing.
And it's a spiritual practice that one uses, kind of like the journeying state in shamanism, we journey, right? We internally go inward to learn and to visit, you know, other places, entities, beings, whatever it is that you need, you use an altered state of the mind to journey there. Right? So I was using that tool that I learned, cause then once I had first book written, actually went to a shaman school for a year. And I just, I just really dug into understanding in the same way that I did with Christianity when I was a child, you know, I really dug in to understand what is this school of thought, what am I learning here? And the main thing I found there, which is just mind blowing, because most people don't understand the indigenous ways. what I found here,
Gary Montalvo - 20:51
I want to just give you this little caveat because I want you to speak into it as you're finishing that thought. We don't cover this topic a lot on the show, which I'm really excited to talk to you. And I think that one of the things that you should kind of break down as you're finishing this is what is even a shaman? You know what mean? And what's the historical context of it and all that? Because I think a lot of people who are not part of the Wu may not even understand that, you know?
Dale Allen - Rowse - 21:18
Sure, sure. So historically, I mean, the term shaman means doctor of the soul. And a shaman is appointed, not self-elected. So I can't say in and of myself that I am a shaman. But I use that term sometimes loosely in order to help people understand what the spiritual practice of the indigenous people that I work through that I used in order to heal myself.
So historically the shaman is the healer of the community, And they really use energy work in order to heal others. And the difference between traditional religions and shamanism is that in traditional religions, you are expected and taught to be more subservient, to prostrate yourself in front of God. And if you do not do that, you will be punished. That's the whole setup. That's the whole paradigm. That's as far as they get. However, In shamanism, you are taught how to jailbreak the matrix because you in and of yourself are the power. You are the universe. You are God. You are the one who within yourself and in through all things, all things as possible. If you understand your own personal power, it's about becoming a more powerful entity and having the ability to jailbreak the matrix so that you yourself are affecting the matrix.
It's not affecting you. You in and of yourself are resonating in such a way that you are manifesting in real time on a Christ level.
Gary Montalvo - 22:54
Yeah. Okay. these are so many things I want to talk to you about. one of the things that, I mean, I think we should talk about, know, what did you call it? The, you call it automatic writing? Yeah. Okay. So I heard you also talk about, speak about this, ⁓ you you call it the channeling in other ways. ⁓ I want to kind of get into that a little bit.
Was one of the reasons that I was like, I want to really talk to this guy when I heard that you channeled your books. I was fascinated by that because it's something that I've been paying attention to. And I think that, you know, when people think of channels, they are channeling, they, they think of like the ones that we see where there's like a, you know, there's a being that takes over your body. There's something, a spirit or something that takes over your body.
And you're kind of like a host and they're just using you as a vessel to speak and deliver their message to you. Which a lot of people get freaked out by the idea and I totally get it, but that's one type of channeling. But we're all channels, right? And that's the part that I kind of want to get into because
Dale Allen – Rowse - 24:15
Mm.
Gary Montalvo - 24:23
We all have the capacity to, when you're channeling, as I understand it, it's just, you're just bringing information forward from some place, right? There is a higher wisdom coming through and that shows up in many ways. Through writing, some people channel through music, some people channel through their art.
The first experience I had of myself channeling was I would notice that I would be on stage speaking and having some interaction with someone or saying something. And people would often go, ⁓ can you repeat that? And then I would have to check in and go, no, I actually can't repeat that.
Right. I'm not even sure what I. Sure what and I kept having that experience where I would go, I think what I said was this or I'm not really sure. And I didn't know what was happening. I just thought, go ahead.
Dale Allen – Rowse -25:19
Involved in what was just
Yeah, I have the same experience with my books. People ask me questions about my books and I'm like, I have no idea. I didn't write that. I can comment on it, but me in and of myself, I'm learning from the information as it's coming out on the page. It is not me. It would be impossible for me to write an entire book on a topic I didn't know anything about.
Gary Montalvo - 25:55
with no research, no nothing. I mean, that's just incredible to me that, and I've heard of that happening before. I've heard of, know, many things like that happening, but it's just fascinating that you, and what I think is fascinating about you is that you weren't really in that world like that.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 26:13
I wasn't looking for it, but it just appeared that way and it became the main tool for my healing. And I was writing my books, you know, by the second book to save my life. Like that's how serious it was getting because I was so sick and I couldn't leave the house and I couldn't make an income. I couldn't work. I couldn't do anything. And it was the one tool that I had that seemed to be laying a path forward for me. And it was this constant like going in and I'd write every day and it would just like show me more and show me more and show me more of what I needed to learn and know and ⁓ If you want to call that my subconscious that's bringing that forward That's fine, too. If you want to call it from something outside of me, that's fine, too I don't try and put a label on it. I just channel source and I tap into source and Because this is the thing is I think that we've really gotten off in the Western world is that we think we need a god or an entity or a deity outside of ourselves in order to do the thing, in order to change your life, in order to go manifest two billion dollars. You think that you need to pray to something rather than just going and doing it. And that's ultimately what I got to that removed any need for an entity being or god that I, in and of myself, can.
Imbue into my own personal way that which I need in order to go and do the thing myself. I don't need a middleman. And that's the personal power that shamanism puts you in. It gives you the controls to the matrix so that you can go do it without help or fear or like anything. You can just stand in power and get it done.
Gary Montalvo - 27:58
Yeah. And that's not to, I feel like saying this in case, you know, someone is trying to wrap their head around this conversation. You know, that's not, ⁓ that's not an F you to, you know, that's not like saying God didn't play a role or God has nothing to do with it or.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 28:21
Channeling
God, I am in direct contact and speaking as a part of that entity, but there's no middleman.
Gary Montalvo - 28:29
Yeah. don't even know, but I guess what would you say to somebody who thinks you're crazy and that's not God, that's something else coming through?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 28:46
It might be, I don't put any labels on any of that. I don't know where the information comes from. don't know if it's, you know, I mean, all I can say is that I'm being shown something and I don't know where it comes from. And the books speak for themselves. And if you want to read my work and then have an opinion about it, I'm happy to have that conversation.
Gary Montalvo - 29:07
Yeah. Yeah, you know, and I'll be honest in my journey of stepping into this world and ⁓ I'm kind of in the closet about it. I don't really talk about it professionally. You know, if you kind of can read between the lines, you pick it up on things that I'm saying here and there, but it's not like, you know, I'm a business coach, I'm a leadership coach. So I'm dealing with like, let's get to work and this, you and over the last three or four years I've been diving into this world because I'm realizing, you know, my training is in leadership. So I approached everything very, very masculine, very dominant, very, you know, let's do it, do whatever it takes. Yeah, 100%. And so I started to realize that there was part of the conversation that was missing.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 29:50
That's the old paradise.
So, I was a business coach as well. And I learned all of this manifesting as a science in business coaching. And I was shocked when I went to business coaching school that these guys were so committed to their sales, they would do anything, even evolve in their consciousness in order to again, remove any limiting beliefs and anything that stands in the way of they in and of themselves standing in their personal power and being able to again, jailbreak the matrix to affect the matrix rather than the matrix affecting them. That's power.
So I learned all this in like business coaching school.
Gary Montalvo - 30:37
I think that, you know, I think coaching has caught up to some of these distinctions, you know, even if they are not like fully embodied all the time, I think that they understand that there's more to the conversation. You mentioned manifesting a few times and we should, you know, I feel like we should touch on that and talk about what that means for you, you know, what's your process for it? How do you understand it?
Yeah
Dale Allen – Rowse - 31:08
So again, I started this journey in business coaching school and they were showing me ways to understand manifesting as a science, which you can do. You could, there are very clear steps on how one manifests their hopes and dreams. And the number one thing that we get in our way with is complaint, right? And so we say that we want this one thing and then all of our energy is down here in a terrible.
Right? And it's not at all resonating with who we are and what we say that we want in the world. I work with people one-on-one in Shimonak Healing Sessions and business coaching. And it all, for me, comes together in one place. Is in the manifesting, is in becoming master and commander of your own life and being able to on a Christ level, manifest that which you seek in real time. And I have a teacher who can do that will blow your mind. I mean, it's just amazing watching these people operate in the world who don't seem to, you know, tack to science or, mean, but it's all, of course it is, you know, it's just all quantum physics, but they're operating on a different level than we are because they really have the ability to jailbreak the matrix and bend it all to their will, not the other way around.
Gary Montalvo - 32:22
Yeah, I have, I mean, I've known people like this, I have like, there's a friend, particularly that comes to mind that it's like, she literally, whatever she says, like, I remember one time I lost my dog and she was my first call I made. I was like, yo, I lost my dog, you know, like, I need your help bringing it back. Cause she is like a whiz at doing this.
And she has a natural, like she has like, no, like she's just doing life and but things just come to her at the moment she has an idea, it starts presenting. ⁓ But I've had pun, I feel like the trick to manifesting to one of the tricks is to just make it a kind of a game. Like the moment, it's like, it's the weight that we put on the attachment.
It's the weight that we put on the fear of it not happening. It's the weight that we put that actually makes it not energetically something that can even come to you. It wants to come to you. That's the part. This is part of the people don't get like it wants to go. Money wants to come to you like it's like the energy of money wants to play with you. ⁓ But it needs it needs it needs a frequency that be able to match it. Like if you if you're not in alignment, like it's like.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 33:43
It needs the frequency in order to align with, right? And like we were talking about earlier, like the old way used to be to hustle. And as a business coach, I used to teach lots of real estate agents to go out there and hustle, to knock on more doors, to make more phone calls, to do all the things that you're supposed to do in order to hustle your way to success. We don't do that anymore. That entire paradigm is gone. We now align.
We align with people who feel right to us. We align to opportunities. We align to that which feels sensitively right and energetically correct to us. And that takes stillness. That takes quiet. It doesn't take hustle. It takes checking in with self. Is this person in alignment with where I'm going? Is this person helping me? And you just very gently and delicately come up to all these people at a convention and find the ones.
that are helping you, that are in alignment with where you're going and what you're doing. But that also takes a lot of clarity and most people don't take the time to write on their North Star that which they seek. And so they have no direction, they have no guiding light, they have no principle on which they stand for.
Gary Montalvo - 34:56
they don't know how to navigate the storm if you don't do that work. I'm really glad you said stillness because when you were speaking earlier, I had a thought that I wanted to extrapolate in that you, you know, I took note when you said you moved into the forest, into the mountains, right? ⁓ Because I think one of the biggest challenges that we have today is that, is that, It's hard to find the stillness. It's really difficult to find the... ⁓ 100%. And, you know, I speak a lot about this, the idea that we have all these devices in front of us all the time. We have all these notifications. We have all these alerts. We're spending half the day on screens. We, you know, we were not designed.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 35:28
And that's why design.
Gary Montalvo - 35:46
to live this way, our bodies were not designed to live this way. And if you're an entrepreneur, I think that's even more so, because you're in hustle mode all the time, you're always trying to catch that next sale. So we live these lives where we don't have a lot of quiet moments. We always have the TV in the background. We go for a walk and we have the headphones. And I think you've brought up a few times how important it is to manufacture, design those moments of reflection because that's where the deep work happens.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 36:23
Everything that people are looking for is found on the other side of stillness. And it's something I really teach in my practice when I'm working with people one-on-one, really helping them associate with like, what's going on in here? Like, how are you vibrating in the world? What's your energy signature?
Are you resonating with peace and harmony and internal love? Because if you are, then you can manifest. But if you're resonating and inhabiting the vibration of lack or scarcity or fear or anger or pain or toxicity, you immediately cut yourself from spirit, from that channel. And that was the one thing, like when I went to shaman school and they were teaching us animal tracking, and they were teaching us like all these ancient songs, drumming and rattle and like, and each one of these topics that they were teaching all started from the same place. Like in the animal tracking class, the first thing we did was do what? Get quiet. Get still.
Checking with our surroundings to see what the environment is telling us. And that takes a level of sensitivity that most people in the Western world are completely unaware of. They don't even know it exists. They don't know that they can... ⁓
Gary Montalvo - 37:37
comfortable with it. Yes. comfortable with it. We don't like I'm telling like you go for a walk and you grab your headphones. It seems like put some music in the background like we're uncomfortable with it.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 37:47
It's because there's two worlds. There's the world of man and there's the world of God. And you're either tacking into the world of man or the world of God. And most people are very uncomfortable living in the world of God because they in and of themselves are not God. But if they're living in the world of man, they can determine for themselves that they are God.
Gary Montalvo - 38:08
I think you have to say more about that.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 38:11
Sure. It's more about appointing, like, the thing that is ⁓ your guiding principle. Is the, like, concepts, the thought constructs that man has created real to you or not? To me, they are not. Money, that's just a thought construct, right? All of these laws, all these things you're supposed to do, all these, ⁓ you know, politics, that's all thought constructs. And how you tell the difference what is real and what is not is that if the minds who are involved in it, say a religion or money, stop thinking about those things, does that thing still exist? So let's say pick your favorite religion, all the minds who hold that up, if all the minds went away, does that thing continue? No.
Because it is only living in the mind as a thought construct that we all hold up as real, and yet it is not. It is just a thought construct. Whereas the world of God, if you're tapping into that, again, you're channeling direct. There's no thought constructs. There's just what is real, which is nature, which is other people, which is the immediate present conscious moment.
And that's the other thing is like to get into this work, you have to understand where you are in space and time. And most people are like in this imagined past or an imagined future, but nobody is like consciously present to this moment to being with the other people. And again, that takes a certain solidity of self.
Gary Montalvo - 39:54
Yeah, that's a bad idea of yeah, mean, yeah, we're mostly not present. You know that that practice that practice of being present is is it's it's not a practice right now.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 40:12
Well, it does.
Gary Montalvo - 40:15
It's honestly, it's like one of the first things I put, I've spoken about this a few times, but it's one of the first things I put in with my clients now. They're coming to me for a business strategy and business coaching. like literally the first thing I'm putting in, it's like, all right, here's what your mornings are gonna look like now. Because it's really difficult to do the work of innovating, of manifesting, of creating something new of retraining yourself. Just creating a new habit. It's really difficult to create a new habit when you are in automatic all day long.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 40:52
Especially when you yourself are the habit, that's what I work with my clients to really break the habit of themselves, because the habit that they've worked up to identify as themselves is making them crazy or unhappy. If you are still struggling with fear and pain, that's just all ego stuff. And that is all cured, all fear, all pain, unless you're being actively attacked, is cured through presence, through consciousness, through arriving to the room that you're in.
And looking around and going, actually there's nothing fearful in here. Why am I terrorizing myself and allowing my imagination to show me harmful things? And it's helping people understand that they're in control of their mind. They should be in control of their moods and their emotions at every single moment. But like we're a bunch of elementary school kids that is just like has no handle or control on their mind. And they're having these emotions that are terrorizing them and they're feeling fear and they're feeling anxious. And they're on all these medications to try and fix all this stuff when all they have to do is just get present. Just come back to the moment they're in. Come back to stillness. Get clear on where you are in space and time. There is no past. There is no future. It's all just imagined. You have to abandon any concept that the past is real. And while you might have remembrance of like what went on, it cannot be tied to as real anymore because it's now illusion.
Gary Montalvo - 42:25
Yeah. the idea, I think what I'm trying to sort of articulate is that a lot of the suffering that people experience are really coming from reliving a past that is no longer happening, right? That something happened and no one has taken that away from you and no one is taking away from the fact that it was painful. now, you have the option of leaving that in the past. You have the option of creating a new experience, a new moment, being here in this moment, not in what happened. And they've done all these studies now. This isn't just spiritual. Like they've done all these studies now that it's like, when you start thinking of that experience, your brain can't tell the difference. It starts reliving the trauma, like very much in the same way as it was happening to you. And so, what's happening to a lot of people is that they get stuck in these loop patterns over and over again, being reinforced and they can't get off the ride.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 43:32
Right. It's, you are a habit, your vibration, your energy signature is a habit. And you can change that habit. by changing your vibrational self, by understanding your history or story differently. And there's real power there. You want to heal your past, create a new story, create a whole new story. Okay. So like my parents were pretty terrible, pretty terrible. ⁓ thus the books.
You know, and I spent a lot of years telling myself the story of how terrible my parents were, how loveless they were, how judgmental they were, how vicious they were, you know, all the things. And at the same time, what also is true is that I have memories of my mother being very loving. I have memories of my father taking time out of his day for me. And so it's a choice.
To rewrite that history in goodness, ⁓ in a way that I can feel proud of, that I can feel proud of them knowing that they did their best. You know what I mean? And so it's rewriting the history of that. And in Shamanic circles, there's actually real like groups and ⁓ activation around your lineage and going back through space and time and cleaning up your family's history and the lineage and all of the energetic garbage that they have left here on earth, right? And so people who are really into shamanism will really take the time to be the one in the here and now who goes back through their family line and heals all that bad energy.
Gary Montalvo - 45:15
Yeah, you're kind of starting to touch on something that I find ⁓ really touching and powerful in this type of work is that, you know, when you are in sort of in Native American practices, there's like a real awareness of ⁓ the ancestry, you know, the ancestors.
The knowledge that's being passed down. sometimes you talk to people who may be religious and don't believe in some of this stuff. And I have to remind them, I'm like, you know this stuff was around way before your stuff, right? Like, know that this has been around. It's like, there's just a real, there's an honoring of, an example is the honoring of nature, which we have gotten away from, especially when you live in urban environments. And there, mean, if you want to reset man, go stand outside and look at a tree. it, like ⁓ there's a way that being in nature, what was that?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 46:30
As I better yet touch the tree.
Gary Montalvo - 46:31
or touch, yeah, there's a way in which it grounds you, it resets you, it centers you, it connects you to something bigger. But we're moving away from these practices and we're moving away from these experiences. And so what I love about these traditions is that it's still there, you know, it's still very much every conversation starts with an honoring of the land, an honoring of the elders, an honoring of the ancestors. And I don't know, find that ⁓ comforting, but I also find that like, there's something about it that makes me feel like I'm not alone, you know? And like I'm part of a lineage. And I feel like people are missing that right now.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 47:19
And dealing with your ancestry not just deals with like your past ancestors, right? It also deals in future generations so that you understand where you are on the timeline, that there's as many people behind you as there are in front of you. And so you start to develop a relationship and a sensitivity to those lives that have gone before you and that have brought you to this moment, but also the ones to whom you seek to serve by planting a tree today for those people to enjoy. All of that comes to a practice of self-honor, which I see in the Indigenous world, I do not see in the Western world. Like they will spend, you know, the time blessing themselves, honouring themselves, and making sure that they have in and of themselves everything that they need. They don't look to others to fulfill them. They have the skills and the tools to fulfill it for themselves. Anything that we do not have is that which we have not granted to self.
And so granting it to self and taking the time and that practice to fill yourself with anything that you need, whether it be peace, love, joy, happiness, know, fulfillment, financial, whatever, anything you do not have is that which you have not taken the time to grant to self. And that is a practice. And again, it's all found through stillness.
Gary Montalvo - 48:37
Yeah, beautiful. ⁓ As we start to wrap up, is there a question I haven't asked you yet? Is there something that we haven't touched on that's like, ⁓ we got to make sure we talk about this?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 48:51
How about what's now and what's happening next?
Gary Montalvo - 48:53
Okay.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 48:54
So now, like, I wrote all these books on shamanism. I have the series, which is a bunch of tiny little novels. all about 100 pages long. That's the Language and Light series.
Gary Montalvo - 49:06
me ask you about these books. When you say they're on shamanism, are they instructional or are they fiction but the theme is shamanism?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 49:16
I describe them as their modern day fables that explore and dissect energy work. So this series here that starts with handsome devils with the two guys kissing on the front cover, this is Nikolai Tesla actually, because Nikolai Tesla left pre-Nazi Austria in 1886 for America. So it's actually part historical fiction where you follow Nikolai Tesla through his life in America, but the whole story is told from the other lover who's left behind in Austria.
This was the year 1886 was the first year that conversion therapy was ever coined as a term. And so all this is happening in 1886. And so the story starts to really get, you know, complex, and the urgency just starts to really build as he is essentially saving these young men from conversion therapy, because they used to lobotomize them back then, like it was very serious.
And so the story is really interesting and he, Melvin, the one who's left behind, gets all these kids and it becomes like Harry Potter, but for shamanism and gay kids. And he's teaching them all how to do shamanism and essentially how to overthrow the government using shamanism. Don't know, that could be maybe helpful to someone today.
Gary Montalvo - 50:38
Everybody wants to buy the book.
Dale Allen – Rowse - 50:40
So that's that series. But then I have my other series and like this one really is, that's my life story. If you want to know what happened to me as a child and all that, but it's not told Dale did this and Dale did that. It's a fictional character who is bisexual, who has relationships with both women and men. Because I didn't want it to be about my story. I wanted it be a little bit more magical, right? And so this is Journey of a Dark Shaman trilogy. But beyond the books and I've done all of this now. I'm now embarking on a new path with plant medicine. And I don't know if you have explored that world at all, but MerkabaRetreats.com Is kind of what I'm doing now and helping facilitate plant medicine ceremonies. We're doing one here at our house just outside of Palm Springs. We're doing another one in Mexico. So there's lots going on.
Gary Montalvo - 51:34
Beautiful. Yeah, I feel like I have to have you back on the show now to talk about the plant medicine stuff, because that's how all the... That opens up many, many doors as well. Dale, thank you so much. Super fun conversation. You're a super fun guy. It's really, you know, thank you for your wisdom and your heart. And I look forward to continuing our relationship and our friendship and stay a friend of the show, okay?
Dale Allen – Rowse - 51:42
Yeah.
Sounds great.
Gary Montalvo - 52:08
In a world that celebrates hustle and logic, it's easy to dismiss things like channeling, stillness, and energy work. So for some of you, this conversation is going to require you to have an open mind. Dale's story is a reminder that doing all the right things, achieving, succeeding, checking the boxes, doesn't always lead to that sense of peace or accomplishment that we are so often seeking.
Often it's actually the opposite. can lead to burnout, to living our lives in reaction to the next emergency, the next bill, the next goal. It can rob us of our ability to be in the present, to favor the moments that truly matter, to smell the roses if you will. It can put us in a hamster wheel running and running trying to get somewhere that we can't really ever get to. That busyness, that constant rushing, that inability to stop.
create static in your channel. Now, okay, I already said this is gonna require you to have an open mind. But consider that just like Dale, you are also a channel. We are all channels. Channeling isn't about spirits taking over your body. It's about receiving information, insights, or creative expression from sources that feel beyond or deeper than the conscious, rational mind.
That source might be your higher self, your subconscious, your intuition. At times, it could feel like a deeper inner knowing. And yes, sometimes it's a divine guidance. But here's the key, we all do it. If you've ever had a moment where your words just came through you, where you wrote something and you thought, I don't know where that came from, where you said something in a conversation, or in my case, on a stage in front of hundreds and hundreds of people and then someone asks you to repeat what you said and then you realize that you absolutely couldn't. That's channeling. Some people channel through writing, some through music, some through movement or prayer. All of us have the capacity to be a vessel of insight. The question is, can you be quiet enough and still enough to hear the answers that you're seeking?
Because like Dale said, the old way was hustle, push, prove. But the new way, the new way is resonance. The new way is alignment. The new way is learning to trust what comes through when you stop trying to control it all. So if you are in a season where your strategy isn't working, try stillness, try listening, try channeling.
I want to give huge thank you to Dale for being such an open and generous and deeply wise guest. Make sure you check out the show notes for the links to his book series and upcoming retreats. And as always, keep leaning in, keep listening to yourself, and keep playing the ownership game. I'll see you next week.
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.