EPISODE. The Health Lies We’ve Been Sold—And How To Take Back Control with Dr. Amy Gutman
Transcript
Amy Gutman - 00:00
But I found that metabolic health brought me back to health, not only back, but like way beyond anything that I could have ever hoped for in the past. And I realized that, yes, I love emergency medicine, but 85 % of what I treat is chronic conditions that can be avoided. And I treat them very end stage, unfortunately. And sure, I people get...stabbed, get shot, people have babies. Sure, those things are pretty run in the mill emergency medicine, but a lot of my night is your diabetes is out of control, your hypertension is out of control. so looking at how I can keep those patients out of my ER, not because they're not legitimate patients. They of course are, but they shouldn't be there. They should have had their problem dealt with well before they came in.
Theme Music- 00:56
Welcome to the ownership game with Gary Montalvo. What would it take to get into the driver's seat of your life and leave your mark? The ownership game starts now.
Gary Montalvo - 1:15
Today we're talking about a different type of leadership and ownership. One that often gets overlooked and that's the ownership of your health.
Now I know that's not necessarily what you signed up for with this podcast, but here's the thing. It doesn't matter how successful and amazing your business and your life are. If your body isn't functioning the way that it's designed to, you're just gonna be playing the game with a major handicap. So today we're gonna go there. And I have the perfect guest for that. My guest today is Dr. Amy Gutman.
After years as an emergency physician working in critical care, Amy thought that she understood health better than most. But when she got seriously ill herself and traditional medicine had no answers for her, she was forced to re-examine everything she thought she knew. What she discovered about metabolic health didn't just save her life, it gave her a whole new mission. And that's helping people to rebuild their health from the inside out.
This episode is a deep dive into the lives that we've been sold about what's normal when it comes to aging, health and disease. By the end, you're gonna seriously question what you think you know. You're gonna take back ownership of your body and you're gonna realize that better health and a better life, it's possible no matter where you're starting from. So let's get into it.
So Amy, ⁓ thank you for being on the show. You literally just got off the emergency room working in overnight.
Amy Gutman - 02:48
Yes. Good morning or good night, as it were.
Gary Montalvo - 02:55
So thank you so much for making the time and I how busy you are. I think we should start by just, how do you explain what you do? I mean, I know you're doctor, obviously, you're a physician, I think the breadth of, I'm curious to see how you describe what you do because the breadth of your work is wide.
Amy Gutman - 03:15
It is definitely broad. I am a broad. think that's actually a really good description. Very 1940s gangster movie. I'm sort of like that kind of broad. ⁓ I have ⁓ a very weird and full and wonderful life. I'm an emergency physician and I work only night shifts. I've done that for a very, very long time after I left kind of executive life in the emergency department.
I all these random fellowships in critical care and I've worked in helicopters and in ships in different countries because I really like seeing how the world treats patients. like fixing people. And then a number of years ago, I got very, very sick and I couldn't fix myself knowing what I knew in traditional medicine, but I'd been practicing for decades.
And as I got sicker and sicker, I stopped kind of listening to what I thought was traditional medicine, which had really served me well. And I said, well, if this doesn't work, how can I fix myself? And I stumbled upon some really interesting things about metabolic health. And I think it's definitely more welcome now in the past year than it has been previously, that sort of woo-woo medicine. And trust me, I'm not a tree hugger. I'm very science-based. I did research for many years. But I found that metabolic health brought me back to health, not only back, but like way beyond anything that I could have ever hoped for in the past. And I realized that, yes, I love emergency medicine, but I treat 85 % of what I treat is chronic conditions that can be avoided. And I treat them very end stage, unfortunately. And sure, I people get, I mean, it sounds random, but people get stabbed, people get shot, people have babies. Sure, those things are pretty run in the mill emergency medicine, but a lot of my night is your diabetes is out of control, your hypertension is out of control. so looking at how I can keep those patients out of my ER, not because they're not legitimate patients. They of course are, but they shouldn't be there. They should have had their problem dealt with well before they came in. And coincidentally at the time I was asked to give a random speech about leadership and literally a day prep. I'm like, well, I don't, okay, sure. I was in leadership. I was an executive and huh, I wonder if I could take what I know about the emergency department in critical care and leadership, but use science to kind of explain it. I looked at who else was talking at this conference and I'm like, let me try this. And it was an absolute hit because it was a very different way of talking about being a leadership through resilience, wellness principles, but again, not tree hugging. I'm like, you know, I wonder if...
I can maybe fix people looking at it a different way. And so now I spend a lot of time not just doing more sort of functional medicine. Essentially, I use science to support people's success in whatever they do, physical and mental wellness, but making that sort of toughness science-based, but applicable. And it makes biochemistry sexy, essentially.
So that's a bit of a nutshell, but that's what I do. And then I nap every now and again, as we talked about a little bit. I nap.
Gary Montalvo - 07:28
You just shared a lot of great things that I want to talk about. ⁓ But you said metabolic health. I just want to break that down for people a little bit who may not understand what that means. ⁓ can you go into that a little bit?
Amy Gutman - 07:42
So, I think, again, especially in United States, and I know your show is international, there's been a lot of focus recently on ultra-processed things of that sort. So, the science of metabolic health, some people call it the metabolic mindset, people who study specifically neurohealth. But metabolic health essentially is treating the body as if...
We have this like kind of almost a clean slate metabolically eating as if we were eating the way ancestrally, evolutionarily. No processed foods, no artificial sweeteners, raw whole foods if possible, and really avoiding excessive carbohydrates and glucose. That's not, those are very toxic to our bodies. They destroy the gut biome and the gut, you've heard of the gut brain connection, right? These are the things that keep us well, keep us healthy, and it all comes down to the mitochondria, the sexiest organelle in the body. So let me ask you, do you remember fifth grade biology at all?
Gary Montalvo - 08:52
Yeah.
Amy Gutman - 08:53
Yeah, what do you remember about the mitochondria? What's the one thing that everybody knows about the mitochondria? I'm going to put you on the spot.
Gary Montalvo - 09:01
That- I actually don't know that I know what that is.
Amy Gutman - 09:04
So the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. And people are like, yeah, I do remember that. Fifth grade biology. And if the mitochondria is essentially what powers every cell in your body. And if you feed the mitochondria properly, if you give it everything it needs, it does miraculous things. It helps rid the body of the cells that are damaged in disease. So damaged and diseased cells, when they replicate, when they make other cells, form abnormal cells, things like cancer-causing cells. Mitochondria that are healthy help fuel the brain so the brain works better. Mitochondria are healthy, help reduce heart disease. They make your organs function better. They make your pancreas function better.
If you don't feed your mitochondria well, and again, that comes back to low sugar, low carbohydrate, these metabolically healthy, the mitochondria essentially form a metabolism, they make our metabolism healthy. If you don't feed a mitochondria well, not only does your physical health deteriorate, but your mental health deteriorates as well. So the metabolic mindset is feeding your body properly to make you work better on a cellular level, which is essentially a microcosm for the individual. But people extend it even further until looking at society that way as well. A physically healthy society tends to be a more productive society, happier society. And so it's a whole sort of field of medicine that is very exciting and it has saved thousands of lives just by returning to kind of a normal evolutionary way of eating.
Gary Montalvo - 11:08
I love this. So just, know, to recap for the listeners, we, we're, you know, we're putting, you're, you're essentially trying to help people from the inside out. The normal way of doing things is we eat all this stuff that it's really normal in our everyday lives, completely accessible everywhere. Absolutely toxic for us and really bad.
Amy Gutman - 11:32
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gary Montalvo - 11:38
Over time, this has an impact on our body and it develops into all kinds of nasty little diseases, some of them neurological by the way, as we're speaking. So your stress, your anxiety, your depression, all those little things that are pretty prevalent, It's impacted by the stuff you're putting into your body.
And so the way we normally treat this is we, I mean, literally the first time you walk in and the most common thing you walk into an office, they hand you a pill. They hand you a pill. It's the easiest solution. It's probably the most lucrative for the system. so you're, and then you,
Amy Gutman - 12:15
100%.
Gary Montalvo - 12:33
are really trying to come at it from, okay, let's stop giving people pills. Let's stop, you know, let me stop treating them at the end of this. Let me try to help them at the beginning of the process. I love this. It makes sense to me, but here's the thing, Amy, that anytime I have a conversation like this, I immediately get like overwhelmed because it's just really, it feels impossible.
Amy Gutman - 12:56
Okay.
But it's not.
Gary Montalvo - 13:05
I get it. I get it. But let me just but I want to voice this because I a lot of listeners are going to kind of get what I'm talking about. Of course, it feels like. I mean, it's everywhere, it's everywhere. And these things that are labeled as like, oh, healthy, oh, not fat, oh, you know, the the branding and the packaging. And there things that you think you're eating that are like, oh, this is actually good. And then you.
Absolutely find out that is absolute trash You know, it's it's really difficult to navigate the misinformation and it's overwhelming I find sometimes and and the one thing that I think I really get overwhelmed by is that it seems that in order for me to do this I have to like create a bubble and like
Amy Gutman - 13:55
No, no, I understand
And you know what? So did I. I, so I would say probably about nine out of every 10 patients that I try to talk to in the emergency department. Now keep in mind, it's an emergency department. So it's not like I'm going to be sitting down for 30 minutes and talk with you, right? I would say about nine out of 10 say exactly the same thing. And I say, I just, I can't, what you're telling me, I can't do it. And I always tell people it's simple, but it is not easy.
But here's the thing.
When we talk about things like drug de-escalation, right? Okay, I go to doctors, like, your blood pressure is up, your cholesterol is up. I'm going to take, here's this pill, here's this pill, and let's do some labs. I'll see you in six months and I'll put you on more pills. Cool. Well, it doesn't fix the problem, as you mentioned. So the easiest way to think about it is I always tell people very simple rules. If you cannot pronounce it, don't eat it. It's a good way to start.
Right? can't pronounce it donate. If it's artificial, don't need it. Because remember, it's you're putting something like super process into your body.
Gary Montalvo - 15:25
You're talking about the labels, not the actual food. It's the, gotta read the labels. You gotta read the
Amy Gutman - 15:32
yeah the food there are a lot of foods out there I
Gary Montalvo - 15:36
can pronounce pop-tarts really well
Amy Gutman - 15:38
Yes, that is correct. Flip the box over. And if you can't read the ingredients. And I would actually say if it has more than five ingredients, you probably shouldn't be eating it anyway. Process things are bad for you. If it comes in a bag and the bag says the expiration date is over six months, whatever they're putting in it to keep it. But let me make it even simpler because people are like, my gosh, this is like, how am I going to have this like low fat diet. Well, I will even tell you that the things that you know or you think you know, and I was where you were about a year and a half ago. I'm like, I was a vegan for 37 years, 37 years. And I did it because I'm like, this is the healthiest thing for my body. is the healthiest thing for the planet. It's the healthiest things for animals. Wrong, wrong, wrong. And that is because there are a lot of unfortunate lies built into our research system. So I'm going to tell you one fact, is going to, it was explained to me this way. It blows my mind. It blows everyone's mind. talked to you. Let me, I'm getting ready to change your mindset with one simple fact. Okay. So do, what do you know about cholesterol? Do you think cholesterol is like good or bad? What do you think?
Gary Montalvo - 16:59
⁓ So we've I know that the the I I know a little bit about this so yes the idea is cholesterol is bad and and it's like a killer but you actually need cholesterol Yes, because it's cholesterol. think it's it's a cholesterol. It's not it's key for your brain function as I understand it
Amy Gutman - 17:22
So you already know about 90 % more the truth than most people because most people, ⁓ cholesterol is bad. My cholesterol is super high and it's bad. And I would say absolutely not because, so do you think that every woman who's breastfeeding their child wants to kill their child?
Gary Montalvo - 17:43
Absolutely not.
Amy Gutman - 17:43
No, right? Okay, it's the greatest gift that you can give. Well, what's breast milk made of? What's a large component of it? It's fat and cholesterol. Why? Because the difference between an animal cell and a plant cell is a cholesterol wall. Animal cells all have cholesterol. That is what makes every cell in our body is made of cholesterol. Every neuron, every nerve in our body is coated with something called the myelin sheath, which is cholesterol. You take away the cholesterol, the nerves don't function well. And the studies that showed like LDL is awful, it's the cause of heart disease, were, have been shown very clearly to be falsified by the companies that make statins. And so,
It's very interesting that the rise of dementia in this country skyrocketed about two years after statins, which are anti-cholesterol medications, were introduced as a medicine to lower something that really doesn't kill you and is not tied to heart disease. LDL is not. That myth has been repeated over and over, and the original study that it was based on, was fraudulently done and it was essentially bought and paid for by companies that were responsible for hypertension medications, heart disease medications, and LDL. Statins, because they strip the body's ability to make the nerves heal themselves, essentially started the dementia, it's like chronic disease pandemic, in the world.
It was essentially unknown before statins. If you take a patient off of a statin, a patient with Alzheimer's or a neurodegenerative disease, guess what? They get rapidly better. Demonstrably so. They do testing. They have Alzheimer's, different types of testing. And if you take them off statins and let their nerves actually heal and start working again, guess what? They get better.
Patients with neurodegenerative diseases who are put on a high-fat low-carbohydrate whole-food diet heal. And when I talk about like when I was sick and I was desperately looking for help, I stumbled upon a woman. Her name is Dr. Terry Walls, W-A-H-L-S. Years ago, she developed something called the Walls Protocol. She had a very fast progressing form of MS, Multiple Sclerosis. She went from being a professor of internal medicine to being essentially in an electric wheelchair in a very short period of time and was enrolled at a study in her institution. We were looking at this diet and there's these incredible pictures out there of her like I think belief of and I apologize if I get the dates wrong, but it was October, I think 2007 to October 2008.
Picture for an electric wheelchair, like facing life like on a ventilator and a feeding tube, from my understanding, to riding a bicycle just with the intervention of a high-fat diet, a ketogenic-based diet, because it healed her. Now, not completely. She had some damage. But it's interesting. If you take toxins out of your system, your diabetes goes away.
Your hypertension goes away. You don't become a skinny mini. I am not a skinny mini. I laugh. Everyone on ketogenic diet and carnivore, they're like, I have a size two. I'm a size zero. like, I've actually gained weight, which that's my body telling me this is where I need to be. But for everyone who says it's overwhelming, I can't do it. You absolutely can. It's a matter of you get a lot of disinformation.
But if you think simply, if it is something that I have to buy in a bag that's processed, it's probably not going to be good for me. If it's something that it's not like a single ingredient food, it's probably not good for me. I hear from patients, I can't afford it. It's like I can't afford regenerative free range. Absolutely. That's real. say a hundred percent.
I grew up in Detroit. It is a food like there's nothing. There's you cannot, it's not like you're going to have a whole foods like in the middle of Detroit. And if you did is probably you can't afford it because they're the food there. Like I look at a pound of beef there and like, God, no, but the worst ground beef is better than the best processed lunch that you're going to get. And you tend to eat a lot less.
Because whole foods full of fat and full of protein are very satiating. They fill you up. You don't want to eat more. are studies that have been shown over and over again that you just feel fuller unless. And so you don't snack as much. And guess what? Maybe you're not paying a thousand dollars a month for medication anymore. And that goes into helping you fill your diet.
If you're not eating crud, you can afford those whole foods that, thank God, egg prices have gone down because listen, I've got a dealer at the farmer's market and she gets me to like the really good deals, but it's like, you know, she's my dealer. But these are things that are expensive.
Gary Montalvo - 23:50
That's we have come to now. We have to go to our dealers for eggs.
Amy Gutman - 23:54
I have a dealer. She gets the good stuff under the table. But yeah, the reality is good whole food is more expensive than cheap crap. Of course it is. That's part of the marketing genius of it. Let me ask you another question. Do you know where the whole idea of these very addicting processed foods, where the whole marketing and production of them, do you know where it came from? you know the history of it?
Gary Montalvo - 24:21
do actually. I a little bit about it. So my chiropractor who I see all the time, he teaches me all this stuff. my understanding of it is ⁓ when the government started tracking down on cigarette companies, they started expanding their portfolio.
Amy Gutman - 24:26
I'm excited, by the way.
Gary Montalvo - 24:50
and they started to get into foods. And so what they brought their same thinking, they said, well, how do we make these foods more addicting? And so this was happening all around like the 80s, I believe, and in late 90s around that time. And so they started to really mess with the food and figure out how to add things that would make you, how do we make this chip be more addicting so that you can't just grab one, right?
Amy Gutman - 25:26
Just one it would come. Yeah, was that Lays misleads?
Gary Montalvo - 25:30
I so. so, and I actually listened to the Daily, the New York Times did a story on this very recently because what they are now, what the story was about is that now that a Zempic and all these other drugs are in the market to help people lose weight, they don't just help you lose weight, they actually change the things that you want to eat. And so now they have these guys at work at trying to figure out how to make food more addicting for people that are unauthentic.
Amy Gutman - 26:08
100%. And here's the kicker. So the GLP-1, that's what these azempick and magovi and they call them semi-glutite medication. So it's one of the, we talk about satiety. So I said these good foods, high fat, high protein, high quality foods make you fuller quicker.
Well, guess what? They've actually done head to head studies with the like ozempic type medications, semi-glutides versus a keto diet. The keto diet actually suppresses that molecule better, better than ozempic. But people like a shot. People like a pill. Is your diabetes under control or
I hear all the time, well, if I want like a extra bowl of chips or rice, I just dial up my insulin. It's fine. My sugar is controlled because people would rather do that because to them that's easy in the moment. It's easy. so I'm, I'm so excited that you know about that history because I think again, recently people are learning these things. It's not a conspiracy theory.
They are making foods more addictive. They call it hyper palatable. So a bag of chips is like, 10 servings in it? they're like, what is the serving size? Good God, is it four chips? No. But they want you to eat a whole bag. You can't eat just one. And they've used those same tricks. And what's fascinating is, it's like baby food in the US is sweetened about an
Again, I apologize if I'm fudging the percentages, but about three to 4 % more sugar per serving than baby food in other countries because they're training us even as a baby. Like, first of all, why is there sugar in there? Why are there seed oils in it? It's the most awful nasty. And there are wonderful alternatives for women who can't breastfeed. There are, because not every woman can.
I couldn't for a long time. I was ill, but there's sugar in it. Because if a baby learns to crave sugar, it changes their brain chemistry. And then they want sugar. And then it's very hard to break you of that because now you have to break essentially training from childhood on. And so the other interesting thing is the companies like Nestle, for example, makes the foods that make you diabetic. They make the medical products that treat diabetes and they make some of the medications that are for patients who have hypertension, diabetes and kidney failure. I am not in fact, I will, ⁓ my goodness. I will send you a couple of really interesting graphics. So there's only about
Gary Montalvo - 29:03
Are you kidding me right now?
Amy Gutman - 29:15
20 or so main food companies in the entire world, probably a little bit less than that, and they're worldwide. And like the people from Nestle make like the nutritional shakes for people who have diabetes. The people from Nestle make the nutritional shakes for people from diabetes. It just sounds wrong, right? When you say it out loud.
And it's because they have their hands in all sorts of different things. And that's what, I mean, that's what corporate business does. They're out to make a profit, but unfortunately they're making a profit based upon our health being terrible. They also are a huge sponsor of the American Heart Association, the American Diabetes Association, where
They have been cited very recently. It's been very much in the media and global media because a lot of the researchers who their studies are like recently the American Academy of Pediatrics came out and said a low carbohydrate diet for children is potentially bad because it impacts their growth. Well, the study was funded by corporate food conglomerates who gave grants for them to study. Well, I have to tell you if you're a researcher, you're supposed to report your bias, of course. But if you're being paid by a company that essentially makes sugary substances or sells medications to treat sugary substances and you're giving a huge grant to study, are sugary substances bad?
That takes a very strong person to go, yeah, they are, because first of all, it's not going to get published, and second of all, your money's going to get pulled. It doesn't mean researchers are bad people. It just means that it's very difficult to do unbiased research without already knowing the end result, and you make your data make that end result. And so you get very confusing information in the media, which is why a lot of people think that they're overwhelmed by it. They're not overwhelmed by it. It's simple. They're overwhelmed by the misinformation that they hear. mean, how many people have I told you that putting you on a statin is bad because cholesterol is good for you? They will look at you and go, mm-hmm.
Gary Montalvo - 31:47
Yeah, right. And this is this, you know, what comes to mind is the the low fat creates, you know, the it's like all the food became low fat. And so now that's the thing. That's the standard. But what they don't tell you in the background is that in order to make it palatable, they're hyping it up with sugar. So you're getting low fat, but you're getting really high sugar content. And it's it's, know, but that's
I think the part that's overwhelming and maybe you can speak to this, it's like, it feels like you have to have a medical degree to, you know, go through all of this. now what I feel I have to do is I have to now go through studies and try to find a b**** in it and try to find...
Amy Gutman - 32:37
And everything so let's just am I allowed to swear?
Gary Montalvo - 32:41
I did. We typically don't, ⁓
Amy Gutman - 32:44
It’s a very mild one again, I'm a night shift I was an EMT firefighter for many years my my vocabulary is colorful ⁓ So let me let me just say this I was a physician for almost two decades and believed the BS ⁓ so You don't have to be a physician because most physicians I Don't think physicians are bad people
Gary Montalvo - 33:04
Yeah.
Amy Gutman - 33:13
I don't think as a profession we are, think that we believe what we think we know. I say sometimes to audiences when they ask me, well, why do you do this? Because it's, it's very unpopular. It's certainly not popular among a lot of my bosses, I will say my peers think it's really interesting. My job.
Every day is like converting one of my nurses or one of my people I work with. I'm converting you to keto. I promise you. And I throw facts. like, ⁓ I think some of them just stop eating carbs just because they're tired of hearing me rant. I think having an open mind and just questioning things. So like recently, the American Diabetes Association put out a recipe and said, this is great for you. It's healthy for your kidneys. It's healthy for your sugar. It was a pasta dish made with soy sauce.
So it's pasta, so it's processed carbohydrates drenched in a salty processed food.
So the number, diabetes causes hypertension, heart disease, and kidney failure. So I don't know that having a very high starchy carbohydrate load covered in salt is necessarily the best advice. But who was that recipe sponsored by? was sponsored by DaVita. It actually said it on there. DaVita is the number one company that provides dialysis in the United States. So.
It's sort of like you're your corner marijuana dealer going, you're going to feel so good with this. You better try it. Well, yeah, there's consequences. So this is what I would say to the everyday person who's overwhelmed and just is like, I give up. I'm just going to take my drugs and just hope that everything is good. You should question everything. And that's what we do in science. We should question everything. As a human,
We question everything. does every two-year-old say that you kind of like, why, why, why, why, why? We should do that as adults as well. If you're at a grocery store and you're in an aisle and you see a food that says heart healthy and you flip it over and you're looking at like a granola bar, which are nothing but candy, right? So you look at the back, cane sugar, corn syrup. Start and you look through this and you look at this it's like this is not food. This is like a conglomeration of nastiness all junked together in a bar. You might see honey but the honey they're using in a commercial granola bar is not honey like you're going to a farm. It's mostly glucose. So you're looking at the bag of that is heart healthy. How is this heart healthy? There's nothing heart healthy about that. And
So you have to go, well, this doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, common sense says it doesn't make any sense. Put it back and say, well, what should I have as a snack? You want chocolate? Great. Have some dark chocolate. It is super heart healthy. It's got to be a good quality, but it's got some wonderful antioxidants in it. It's a wonderful snack. It is minimally processed depending on where you get it. We're not talking a Hershey's bar. Hershey's bar is not, not to.
Have the not like I'm ever gonna be sponsored by Hershey's granted, but you know, whatever But dark chocolate is good for the heart. It's good for the health. Great. You can literally you have you know, your your phone you have the access to everything in the world here and It's just a matter of is your source good or trust your gut Doesn't make sense If somebody is selling you the idea that something out of a box is healthier from you than something from a farm.
It's not correct. It is absolutely not correct. If you're reading a bag of chips that says you can't eat just one, well, why not? Shouldn't we be able to stop?
If you eat a food and feel hungry after you eat something, where was the nutritional value? Our bodies evolutionarily, when we eat, say, I'm full. I have killed the wildebeest, whatever beast it was. I'm full. I have filled what I need.
I can go off and make more babies or whatever people did when there wasn't any cable TV to watch and everybody's happy.
And then when you have that really healthy body and that really healthy mind, you can do those things because you're clear of those addictions. Because I mean, to be honest, these are addictions. And you and I both know, whether you're a scientist or not a scientist, that anyone with any addiction is not living their life to their fullest. And I know people want to. So.
If I can make that science accessible to them, that makes me happy.
Gary Montalvo - 38:49
Yeah, and I think you're saying something really interesting because in ⁓ part of my experience is that I don't think people realize that it can be better. Because they can feel better, you know, because in my experience, it's like, we are we get so used to living with these aches and pains and indigestion and we just go, that's just how I am or that's just normal or we start taking more medicine or more things to try to manage that symptom. And we very much get used to living in a state of suffering, if you will, in some way, shape or form. And I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's just we think that that's what it is or it just seems too hard or overwhelming or something, but
You kind of have to step into a space of like, this isn't normal, you know?
Amy Gutman - 39:55
Do you think there's been a point in your life that you've ever seen a doctor or your chiropractor say, you feel this way because of your age? Have you ever been told that?
Gary Montalvo - 40:04
all the freaking like literally
Amy Gutman - 40:08
And I have to tell you, I don't know what age you are. You look, you have beautiful skin. So I don't know what age.
Gary Montalvo - 40:13
Thank you. Okay. I some 48
Amy Gutman - 40:17
Mazel Tov. That's wonderful.
Gary Montalvo - 40:19
Yes, I just turned 48. My birthday was like eight days ago. So I, you know, I'm having to do my internal stuff, right? my colonoscopy, you know. So I went to the urologist. Yeah, and I'm starting to notice some change in the way that I'm urinating and something and literally
Amy Gutman - 40:24
⁓ happy Thursday.
As one does
Gary Montalvo - 40:48
He just said, oh yeah, that's typical when people are eight. And I asked him, said, I've heard that exercises that I can do and should I be doing it? I don't really subscribe to that. Let's give you this pill to try and see how it goes. I was like, he literally just didn't even, he just said you're 48 and shoved this pill in my mouth.
Amy Gutman - 41:09
Time to dig your grave, apparently at 48. That's it.
Gary Montalvo - 41:13
And he was like, yep, that's typical. ⁓ But you know, there's so many things I don't wanna talk to. You're gonna have to come back.
Amy Gutman - 41:21
I mean, lovely. Well, let me put this out to you. People who think it can't get better. The natural response to that is giving up hope. And so sure, OK, I'll take another pill. I'll take this. I'll take a pill to fix the pill, the actions of that pill. so you're an entrepreneur. You're very smart. You have all these things going for you. Very positive person. How did it affect you?
When you were told, oh, you're 48. It's just your age and just essentially suck it up. How did that affect you? A very positive person. What was the effect on you? What was your response?
Gary Montalvo - 42:04
The first thing I experienced was dismiss. Like, I don't really have a problem. That's just what it is when you're your age, know, like tough, you know, tough, right? And then I felt like there was a bit of hopelessness in that, in that you're like, this is what my rest of my life is like now. I have to now live this way.
Amy Gutman - 42:07
Right.
Gary Montalvo - 42:34
There's really nothing I can do. There's really nothing that I can. ⁓ And I think the other thing that it does is that it reinforces this like authority dynamic. Like I know more. ⁓ You know, like, don't like, don't question the system. Like, just take your pill and you're like, ⁓ okay, I guess I'm just going to go and walk away. Yeah, yeah, there was there was something like that. I think that that was in the background, which is interesting. you know, I mean, I have done maybe
Amy Gutman - 42:51
That's interesting, yeah.
I'm pay my copay now.
Gary Montalvo - 43:18
seven episodes now at this point where the moral of the story in some way shape or form is you really have to advocate for yourself when you're in the medical system.
Amy Gutman - 43:32
in any system, but especially the medical system because now take somebody who's not you, who walks into the office and gets that news and they're like, ⁓ all right, well, I guess this is it. I'll take these pills and I'll, it's quite depressing. It's when people who are 300 pounds and they smoke and they're diabetic and hypertension, they come to the emergency department.
And for whatever critical illness has happened to them, they're like, well, I just give up. You're going to need dialysis, I give up. You're going to need to have your toes cut off, I give up. And they just accept the fact. Why would I quit smoking when, you know, it's not going to get any better? Because they don't understand that it can. And it's completely in their control. Now, there are points where people just cannot reverse their disease completely, of course. I'm not, there's nothing magical about what I do. I just sit people down and like, listen, the whole idea is we talk about resiliency. You have to be strong physically to be strong mentally. And I don't mean an 85 year old who's out there, you know, benching 150 pounds. I mean, you have to be giving your body the things it needs to function best. So I used to have horrible, horrible sciatica years is a very, very heavy, very obese firefighter, hurt my back, and it would, I would go sometimes weeks at a time just literally dragging my leg. Injections, meds, meds on top of meds, steroids on top of meds, just horrible things. Became very hard to function. I became a carnivore. ⁓ I sort of attacked this ketogenic lifestyle and it all went away in a kind of magical way because it
Do you decrease inflammation in your body? Last week, because, you know, I bent over and it was one of the things I was bending over weirdly. I'm a very awkward person. I'm not, I'm very clumsy. I over to tie my shoe and I like my back and I'm like, oh, it's back. And went to work because I don't ever miss work. I was miserable for 12 hours, went home, you know pounded some exogenous ketones, like additional things, and I asked my husband to get my back rubbed. It was so dry, I hadn't used it in like 16 months. And I woke up the next morning, evening, pain's gone. And it's because, sure, I get aches and pains because I'm not 20 years old and I do have medical problems. I had hurt my back.
But all those things that kept me in that state of pain, the inflammation, the, I'm just going to pound ibuprofen, which kills the gut. I'm going to, ⁓ I don't feel well, so I'm just going to eat some pasta because, it hurts so bad. I just want to eat some comfort food. More inflammation, more sugar, more inflammation, more sugar.
And now I'm not that person anymore. And I get up 12 hours after I hurt myself. I'm like, oh, all right, maybe not a hundred percent, but 12 hours, not three weeks, no injections. Put chiropractor out of business. I don't mean to put your chiropractor out of business. He sounds like a lovely person and he's definitely educating you. But people don't understand that life can get better. And it doesn't take an awful lot.
And people are afraid to question people with those magical, very expensive letters after their name. I didn't. And I have those magical, expensive letters after my name. I did not question it. And when I started, that's when my life changed. And I want that for every person I meet, every patient, every person like you, you're not my patient. You're a very cool guy who
Gary Montalvo - 47:28
Yeah.
Amy Gutman - 47:46
knows a lot more than the average person, but can still up their game. I can up my game. We can do that every day. As you say, it's ownership. You can be in charge of your physical and mental health, but it takes work. It is simple, but not easy. So let me issue this as challenge. Today, I want you to go in your fridge or your cupboards, whatever.
Gary Montalvo - 48:09
Yeah.
Amy Gutman - 48:16
And look at what you have there. And if you see something that you're looking at this and like. in its process or it's artificial or whatever, or it doesn't. And what is the term spark joy? I spark joy. Wasn't that a thing 10 years ago? ⁓ it sparks you think it does. It gives you that little serotonin burst.
Gary Montalvo - 48:36
Sparks joy, that's the problem.
Amy Gutman - 48:45
But if you're looking at it like, this is probably not good for me. And then take 24 hours and just eat whole foods. Enjoy yourself a nice hamburger, but don't have the bun, don't have seed oils. like, just have good, healthy foods, single ingredient foods, nothing artificial. Don't have soda, have some bubbly water, which...
I was drinking 12 diet Pepsi's a night or diet Cokes, whatever I can get my hands on, on night. And I'm like, I can't give this up. You bet I can.
Gary Montalvo - 49:23
That’s the easiest thing. anybody listening, is probably the easiest thing that would have the biggest impact. Give up those sodas and those sugary juices and that will make such a difference.
Amy Gutman - 49:36
Amazing!
Absolutely. And if you say, can't do it, you can. It's just how much do you want it? How much is your health worth to you? And the answer should be everything. The answer should be everything. And I hope that somebody listening to this goes, ⁓ you know what? Maybe today is the day that I'm going to just look at my fridge. And today is the day that I'm going to sit back and really question what I think I know.
And there's nothing that irritates me more than somebody saying, you, I know it's a podcast. can't I'm making the air quotes. Like do your own research. Yeah. Do your own research. It doesn't necessarily mean that all the research you're doing is good or valid, but be that two year olds ask why, why, why, why, why. And if it doesn't make sense, ask more questions.
And this goes back to the one question I wanted to ask you after listening to my year in review that you did in January. So you talked about winning and losing. So this kind of ties to my question I wanted to ask you. Do you think that not winning is actually losing?
Gary Montalvo - 51:01
No, not win. I mean, our our biggest lessons in life come from not winning. ⁓ That's that's our biggest teacher. Sometimes sometimes you win and you just keep winning. You actually are missing a lot of lessons.
Amy Gutman - 51:16
There you go. So take that to what I'm challenging you to do. So maybe today you're like, you know what? I'm maybe not going to have that soda today. I'm not going to give up everything else. I'm maybe not going to have that soda. Cool. You still won. You won a little battle today. Cool. Did you win the war? No, you won a battle. And maybe tomorrow you're like, okay, instead of having these chips.
I'm going to, hmm, what can I have instead of chips? What do I like instead of Ooh, I'm going to have a nice piece of cheddar cheese. It's salty. It's wonderful. It's full of wonderful nutrients. Whole milk and wonderful. Cool. That's another win. And maybe the day after, instead of eating like a deep fried chicken sandwich, I'm going to have like a really, really good steak sandwich, but I'm only going to have one piece of bread. And I'm going to make sure it's sourdough from a local bakery because it's not made with crud and chances are it's going to be a little bit healthier for me than anything I'm going to get from a store that can live on a shelf for three months. And when you do those baby steps and then you get to the point where you're like, my gosh, I feel so much better. And then you're ready to make the leap and go, you know what, I'm gonna take everything processed out of my life.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect, good Lord. You know, I bang my head on the wall all the time because I'm like, I really want this. I love bread. Dear God, I love bread. Bread! And it's to this day, it makes me sick. And I still look at it and drool.
Because my mind says, my gosh, just have one piece. It's not going to hurt you. And it will. It does. It does hurt. But I think people just think if they can't win it all, they're not going to do it.
Gary Montalvo - 53:31
Think this conversation is so, so, important because I do think that people often approach this as a all or nothing type of game. And the moment they go off track, the moment they have a slip up, the judgment and beat up is so big that they now take themselves off the court and stop playing the game altogether. Yes. And then don't try for another three months. And I think you they get caught up in this like sort of yo-yo. And I think what you're saying, the grace, the the, you know, and the grace that you're well, there's two things that you're really saying that I think are one. Something is better than nothing. You know, you said something that I wanted to go back to, and I'm glad you is coming back up the idea that
Amy Gutman - 54:22
Yes.
Gary Montalvo - 54:31
the cheapest ground beef is better than the processed stuff. If we cannot afford whole foods, then do what you can. This idea of what are some small ways that you can afford organic broccoli, have broccoli still, right? That's still better.
I think that's so important ⁓ because when we approach this with perfectionism, with this idea that I have to do this right, it's hard to win that game. It's really difficult to win that game. ⁓ And it's not realistic and it's just unkind to you and I think brutal. So I love that we're sort of wrapping up the conversation here with this grace and this idea that ⁓ it's a practice.
You know, and like any practices, you're going to have days where you're right on. You're going to have days when you're going to, it's going to be a struggle and you're going to have days where ⁓ you slip up and there's always something to learn from that and you keep up.
Amy Gutman - 55:44
And always a tomorrow. There's always a tomorrow. If you do it right, today can be like, all right, you know what? Today is a day that maybe I didn't eat perfectly, but I ate better than the day before. Therefore, tomorrow is going to be even better. Tomorrow, my goal is to do X, Y, and Z. And I think I love that concept of grace. I think it's a great way to sort of tie this up in that.
It's you know what I think that was God give me the grace to accept serenity and I apologize I'm completely mangling that but it is one of the things that You should not accept the fact that The way you are is the way you will be You can have a life. That's without pain you in your case You can pee better. That's why I know And you know, it's it is one of the things that
You have this in your control, but you have to have enough self-confidence and self-worth to believe you can do it. And I try to teach people that. There is no one who is beyond helping with this. No one. I don't care if you're end stage whatever. You can always feel better. And if that's what I can do both in the emergency department and outside of the emergency department, then that makes me very happy. I can help an executive be better at what they do, but not just at work, but at home. I can meet interesting people like you, and it's like, Gary, let's like clean out your fridge and let's make tomorrow a day that your back actually doesn't hurt as much. You feel better. You...
You know, your next birthday was 357 days or so from now is going to be better than the one you had eight days ago. I think those things are great and that kind of drives me now. And there we go. I think that's a, that's a very good way. Simple, but not easy.
Gary Montalvo - 57:57
I love it. Do you, this is the, we concluded. Yes. Beautiful. But I have three things that I want to talk to you about. Do you have time? Okay. So I don't know if we're opening up a can of worms here, but I, so I'm cute. So I try not to get political on the show in general, but I'm curious.
Amy Gutman - 58:07
Too. Of worms.
Gary Montalvo - 58:20
your thoughts on ⁓ Robert F. Kennedy and some of his ideas and some of the work that he's out. Like, are you excited? Are you cautious? Where are you with this?
Amy Gutman - 58:30
Optimistic so I don't So one of the things that I like ideas not necessarily people or like large scopes of people because I think people We tend to form clans, right? We either like this person is Perfect and all of their ideas are perfect when they aren't you sometimes agree with this person or don't I think like you think it like Elon Musk like so a person like that
There are people who he can do no wrong. There are people he can do no right. And there's some people like, well, some of it's right. Some of it's wrong. Some of it I agree with. Some of it's not. I think what I like best about his approach is he is very science-based. Some of his science I don't know necessarily that I agree with, but it's interesting because he does tend to do a deep dive into the science, but sometimes the research isn't that great.
I love the fact that he is bringing it to the forefront. I think the challenge with him particularly is he's a very divisive as a person. And so people who are like, think his ideas about like, unprocessed foods are great and looking into this, but I don't like what he says about vaccines. Okay, but he's been...
sometimes inconsistent on it, but his idea about vaccines are not that they're necessarily bad, but there's been no really good research into them. I think everyone would agree that the concept of vaccines is very good. It's life-saving, but it's true. And I say this as somebody who I'm fully vaccinated, my child's vaccinated. There's no long-term research and studies into them. And that's kind of horrifying to me.
As a scientist. So I'm cautiously optimistic. Honestly, he's in his seventies and he's got abs. So I'm sort of impressed actually by that. yeah, politics are always interesting though, aren't they?
Gary Montalvo - 1:00:45
I mean, it's, you know, the crazy thing about it is that this conversation shouldn't be political, what I'm saying. I think to your point now, it has gotten political. you know, he says some interesting things about, you know, definitely the processed food industry and the pharmaceutical companies, you know, there is some reckoning that needs to happen there.
Amy Gutman - 1:00:53
Really not.
Gary Montalvo - 1:01:16)
⁓ so
Amy Gutman - 1:01:17
to the forefront, but unfortunately, it comes with very heavy political overtones, which if you're on one side of the fence, you agree with it, you're on the other side, you don't. But I think people, that's sort of a gut reaction. I'm on left side or right side, so therefore I believe this. Whereas people, you can cross all sides of the spectrum. There are people that I know who are very, very right-wing, the people are very left-wing, people are moderate. And it's very interesting because everyone's ideas are all over there. I don't base my friendships on your political views. I'm respectful of your political views. I think we should be able to talk to people about their political views. In fact, I had a very fascinating conversation with my book editor who has very, very opposite political leanings in a couple of things than I do. And I asked him if it made him I don't talk politics in my book. Asimov made him uncomfortable and he said, no, because I'm comfortable with you. Cool. You shouldn't have the same ideas that I do. But I'm glad it's making you ask questions. I think he's making a lot of people ask questions, which great. I think people should.
Gary Montalvo - 1:02:40
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And you have a book coming out, so you can just set it up so that the timing may work out with this episode.
Amy Gutman - 1:02:53
If it doesn't, that's fine. I'm never going to get rich by making a book. It's just hoping to impart some interesting things onto people.
Gary Montalvo - 1:03:03
Yeah, what can people expect from your book?
Amy Gutman - 1:03:06
So it's called powerhouse living. So we talked about the mitochondria, right? The powerhouse of the cell. And it's taking the concepts that I learned from emergency medicine and critical care and then executive leadership, but breaking down the science of it. How can being a good emergency room physician make you a better person personally and professionally?
And taking these sort of crazy life lessons that I've had and using it to apply to your life. Not a self-help book, hey, leadership is, for example, not a position. So to us in the emergency department, for example, you always know who's running a resuscitation fight because they're physically at the head of the bed. We call it the head of everyone in that room, whether I'm at the head of the bed or not, knows I am running that code. Why? Because it's the way I carry myself. It's the way I do things. It's the way I control that room. How do I control that room? And there's a whole science behind it. And anyone can use those lessons to become a better leader, whether personally or professionally. So the book teaches you how to be a powerhouse.
How do you use your mitochondria to be better physically and better mentally? Be the best person you can be.
Gary Montalvo - 1:04:38
Exciting! Yeah!
Amy Gutman - 1:04:39
Sexy, right?
Somebody called it. I did a one of the first podcasts I don't he said it's keto sexy and I'm like Wow Keto sexy and unfortunately his you know the little podcast things where they do little like promo for the show It was this very Latina very busty Abby lots of long hair lots of makeup and I'm like so
You've seen me, right? Like...
Gary Montalvo - 1:05:09
That was the grass.
Amy Gutman - 1:05:11
I'm like, you know, I mean, I keep myself, I'm a woman in my fifties. keep myself, you know, I exercise and think people are going to look at that and like, oh my gosh. I'm like, he's like, oh no, I make it clear. That's nothing like you. I'm like, okay. He goes, it's called cat fishing. We want people to listen to the podcast. And I'm like, you don't think this is enough? He goes, no. I'm like, all right. I'm not even offended by that. That's fine.
Gary Montalvo - 1:05:42
Amy, it's been such a pleasure. So what we'll do is we will, when you launch the book, will update the show notes and put the link of it in there. it should be coming out in the next few months. So keep an eye out for that. excited. And lastly, think is, so I think a lot of people are gonna be inspired now to want to learn more and to try to you know, get some resources for where to make better decisions about their food or some of the things that they're doing. Do you have any recommendations for people to get started? I mean, I know this like, you know, it's like it could be a lot, but sure. think, you know, if you have a book or resource or some way that ⁓ and obviously you're available to them because you have a private practice where you work with people as well so they can reach out to you as well.
Amy Gutman - 1:06:38
Yeah, there are so many resources out there. I, so there's a couple of people that I definitely recommend on, for example, YouTube, like highly accessible things for everybody. So there's a wonderful physician, his name is Ken Berry, B-E-R-R-Y. He's an internal medicine doctor. He's very Southern, very laid back, very accessible.
And he breaks things down, really complicated things like for the metabolic health. There's a wonderful physician, a psychiatrist from Harvard, two of them actually, Dr. Georgia Ede and Dr. Chris Palmer. Brilliant. They talk about the metabolic mind. Again, very accessible. I think if people just, for example, go to YouTube or Twitter and things like…
Oh, I'm curious about these things. It's a ketogenic diet, carnivore diet, low carb diet, or just start looking at processed foods. Like what is all the hoo-ha about processed foods? And there is so much good information out there that is made for everybody. There's a wonderful metabolic health coach and I was a, I'm.
Will be fully transparent. He's a dear friend of mine. His name is Martin Gillespie. He's on LinkedIn. He's got a podcast. It's called Metabolic Well-being Without the BS. it's just, he's wonderful. He's a health coach. He became a health coach because he was dying of cancer and then fixed himself because he didn't want to give up. ⁓ So there's so many wonderful resources out there. It's just a matter of picking up your phone, opening up the internet and going, okay, what can I do to be better? And, you know, it's an interesting thing that you've asked because I think what I will do, probably not this weekend because super busy, but in the next few weeks or so, certainly before the podcast comes out, I will make sure that I start adding a nice little section to my website about, hey, these are really great people to start.
⁓ Or where you can start easy steps for that and I think that might be a nice addition for people
Gary Montalvo - 1:09:08
Yeah, think that that would be really helpful for people. Because like I said, sometimes it can be overwhelming. Amy, I cannot tell you how much I've enjoyed this conversation. You're fantastic. You are fantastic. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. We'll definitely have you back. I can't wait. to continue. I was like, OK, how do I make this not a two hour episode?
Amy Gutman - 1:09:14
No, will absolutely I would it would be an absolute honor and I I I want to hear about how your challenge went and then I will send you some of the information that I've talked about but I want to I want you to look in your fridge and then tomorrow Tomorrow make one change. How does that All right, Gary such a pleasure
Gary Montalvo - 1:09:56
Alright my love, have a great one. Thank you.
Amy Gutman - 1:09:58
Have a good one to you too.
Gary Montalvo - 1:10:01
Wow, wow, wow. That is all I have to say, wow. This conversation is just wild to me. The levels of misinformation are just astonishing. And I think misinformation is just too sanitized of a word. Really what we're talking about are decades of lies and manipulation. So wild. Okay, so here's where I wanna start. The first thing I wanna say is you're not crazy.
This stuff.
It's really difficult to navigate. least for me it is. Food companies are spending billions to convince you, convince us that the products are healthy. Doctors are using data and training that has been manipulated. Food has been designed to be more more addictive and we are becoming more more reliant on medication to pacify all of the side effects of that. It's extremely difficult to know which way is up. To know what's true and what isn't. It's enough to make you anyone feel helpless. And like the only way to navigate this is to grow your own food and cook all your meals and pack your food wherever you go. And who the hell has time for all that? But here's the thing. There is hope. My biggest takeaway from this conversation has been what's one step that you can take? What's one small choice that you can make every day?
Taking ownership of our health isn't about perfection, it's about paying attention. It's about questioning what we've been taught and trusting our own bodies and taking small, consistent steps towards real vitality. Not because someone else told us to, but because we deserve to live fully, not just survive. So my challenge to you this week is where have you gotten a little too comfortable when it comes to your health?
Where have you accepted feeling tired or sluggish or unwell as just normal? And what's one small step that you could take this week to take back even a little more ownership over your health? Maybe it's questioning just one thing you've always assumed was healthy. Maybe it's getting curious about how a certain food or habit actually makes you feel. It doesn't have to be a massive overhaul, it just has to be a start.
And I think it's important to remember that momentum isn't built by doing everything at once. It's built by doing one thing today and then another tomorrow and then another after that.
That is our show for this week. If this conversation resonated with you ⁓ or pissed you off, don't forget to hit follow or subscribe so that you can stay up to date when the new episodes drop. And it also does a great deal to help me grow the show. So I would really appreciate that. And of course, don't forget to share the episode with someone who might need to hear this crazy, crazy, crazy podcast episode.
Until next time, my friends, keep leading yourself with compassion, keep questioning the noise, and keep playing the ownership game. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.